shifted the ECU does learn hense why sometimes when you install a aftermarket intake you get a check engine light because the ECU needs to adjust itself accordingly to the new amount of air that is coming into the motor and adjust the fuel also. <br>


"Theres a time in every mans life where he hits a cross roads and...wait...are you wearing panties?"

ECUs technicaly do learn. You are right about the tables. There are two sets of them. One set of of tables never changes. This table is what the computer reads until the engine warms up. If you have an A/F gauge, notice how rich you are at WOT when the engine hasn't warmed up. I alwayd called that table safe-made like on your computer how you can boot it up without loading any programs but what it takes to turn on. Then again... I am a dork. The other set of tables is the one that changes. Off the assembly line it has the same numbers as the first table. As soon as you start driving, the numbers start to change. There are certain criteria you ahve to meet to change each setting. If anybody has ever used a high dollar OBD2 scanner like the Genisis you will know what I am talking about. You have to test drive the car and go certain speeds for X amount of time and then slow to this speed for X amount of time in order to get the correct reading and check the sensor. Anyway, the computer has to learn because the same ECU with the same base table goes to Michigan as it does Texas. There are different temperature baselines as well as aptmospheric pressure and air density. When you reset your ECU it will copy the base table so you can change each of those numbers again. <br>


Cardomain|Myspace

I don't have to much experience about car ECUs but I know when I was at the University I studied some type of simple learning algorithms or logics, that can give you learning capabilities without great hardware needs.

It name are genetic algorithms and fuzzy logics. This software techniques can give learning capabilities (of course inside some limits) for any computing machine.

So to tell you a simple explanation: you can let some system reach stability or proper working condition based only in few rules and some inputs. So the system doesn't know which is the perfect situation, but can reach by approximation up to a optimal one.

So sending this idea to cars, ECUs (generally speaking in close-loop operation) will need some time to reach some kind of stable operation, maybe less than seconds maybe minutes or hours. So how fast the ECU find the best operation is based on how different is the new situation. Personally I think that car ECUs have statical and dynamic or temporal tables (data stacks) , where all useful or different info is accumulated from your last ride conditions. Of ourse ECU are always sensing between statical and dynamic table as an insurance. If it doesn't reach stability by itself it switch to a known safe mode. So is simple like that.

Of course all ECUs have similar hardware structure but different working ways, so we will need to search about our particular ones.

I hope this info could help a little.

Regards, <br>

___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!

ELIOT. Now.....boosted.

Wild Weasel wrote:I did this same thing a couple years ago and gained nearly 10 hp on my 2.4L from running open with no filtration.

It's a pointless exercise but good for some giggles.

Definitely not pointless. I've constantly run down the 1/4 strip with both of my cavaliers. As long as you aren't running on a strip made of sand and there's crazy winds, your car will be fine and that extra hp increase makes all the different in your timeslips. <br>

<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

you are talking about the manifold robbing power or the stock airbox? <br>

to further back up others

if 20Mhz is more than enough to calculate moon landing trajectories (lunar lander 1) it's more than enough to run an air/fuel algorithm.

it doesn't take that much computer power if you've got a well written algorithm. <br>

-Chris

Friends I found some info about ECU adaptive strategies that could help us to clarify the topic.

Link #1

Link #2

Link #3 --> this is quite similar to Link #1.

I hope this info help.

Regards, <br>

___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!

ELIOT. Now.....boosted.

anyway back to the original topic
what are you talking about
manifold or airbox? <br>

stock airbox <br>

<a href="http://www.ld9.jokerzrealm.com" target="_blank">

<img src="http://www.ld9.jokerzrealm.com/matrixmalakaibanner.jpg"></a>

o well duh
Of course they do. they werent meant to make power; they were made to deacrease NVH. <br>

i have a nural net processor.. a leaning computer \arnold voice <br>


Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

bwahahahahahahaha!!! ^^^ <br>

<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/killercav96/thumbnail_personal_pic.jpg"></img>

The ECU does "Learn" and make slight changes to the fuel/ignition system over time. Even back on the old OBD1 systems from the late 80s did this. When you are looking on a diagnostic screen you will see BLC Count. I can't remember now the exact meaning of the term but i know it means info the ECU has picked up while running. Every car has the same sensors, but all sensors dont read exactly the same. The ECU must calibrate itself over time to your set of sensors. I have a 94 cavalier that runs like crap for about an hour after you unhook the battery until the ECU has learned and reset the idle air control. <br>

Try calling it adjusting and not learning.

talk about raising the dead

hey atleast we all know that people DO know how to search haha


<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/scoobyz24/personal_pic.jpg">

-Bryan Dube
Team Drop Zone
Vice President

When running in Open Loop mode the ECU does nothing but run off a bunch of preset parameters. Once the ECU goes through all its checks & blah blah blah and it kicks into Closed Loop the ECU no longer monitors those tables except for a base line operating scale. Everything else is then run directly off of the Sensor scattered throughout the vehicle. It takes all of those readins and modifies its current ongoing parameter tables used to operate the vehicle in a manner that will reduce emissions while allowing the vehicle to operate properly. For instance when you change your intake and the air entering the engine has become less restrictive the engine would essentially run at a lean condition in our cases because we dont utilize a MAF sensor. BUT because the computer learns through the readings of its O2 sensor it can recalculate the incoming air volume & denisty through the IAT sensor and modify its current parameters, essentially learning the vehicles current setup in order to operated correctly at predetermined by the original programming. But learning is an integral part of ODB II and ODB I systems without learning they would never effectively operated and do what they were designed to do.


<IMG SRC="http://www.j-body.org/registry/kernol/sig.jpg">

dude, wtf why dont you guys just unplugg your battery before you install anything so it resets itself? THERE- PROBLEM FIXED.

QUICKblackECOTEC wrote:hmmmm

double hmmmmmmmmm.


<img src=http://ourworld.cs.com/jwithspray/Jbeier_sig3.JPG>

Running with no Filter/intake system on is not as bad as you think, its been a drag racing inside thing for longer than most of the ppl have been alive on this board. Dont drive down a gravel road etc and dont drive with the intake off all the time and you wont have a problem.

look at 90% of the v8 guys, they do not run filters in the 1/4 when doing a run unless its something with a hoodscoop and thats sealed to the carb bringing in cold air thus needing the filter.





_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**