High-Compression Ecotec Pistons - Page 3 - Performance Forum

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Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 2:29 PM
who said anything about pump gas and who said anything about lots of overlap?! there is stuff called race gas and there are these things called GM cam gears... they can work wonders




Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 2:33 PM
dario wrote:Actually first of all, with a turbo you will have a lower compression ratio piston wise and you wont get your real power til the turbo hits in.. which is the turbo lag. In that time, you have less power then an all motor becuase an all motor's engine will have a steady and more power across the whole power band then the turbo.

All motor = Strong power band overall.
Turbo = Strong power kicks in after lag.


Ok dario, what you're saying there is way too general and is off a bit.

First, lets say you are racing each other at the track. Now, your worries of "turbo lag" is usually due to not matching the right size turbo to your motor. Even if that, on the staging lane, you rev up...when you rev up, you build boost. Yes, you can build boost on the line. When you release, you'll shoot out like a bat out of hell.

Now, why do I say that it's too general? Because, there are way too many different types and sizes of turbos to say that you'll have turbo lag. Ever heard of ball bearing turbos? Those things are pretty much instant full boost...no lag whatsoever.

Now your claims of "strong powerband overall" is far fetched. Like I said before...you guys NEED RPMs to make power. You won't reach your peak till you reach an High RPM with the setup you guys are talking about doing. Also, you will not have the equal amount of HP to Torque ratio.

Basically, your theory is backwards in most circumstances.



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 2:34 PM
Quote:


Actually first of all, with a turbo you will have a lower compression ratio piston wise and you wont get your real power til the turbo hits in.. which is the turbo lag. In that time, you have less power then an all motor becuase an all motor's engine will have a steady and more power across the whole power band then the turbo.

All motor = Strong power band overall.
Turbo = Strong power kicks in after lag.


that has got to be the most missinformed info iv red on this site....

1st. lower compression is JUST to be safe.. im on 14psi on a 10:1 and im fine. this way its easier to get a safer a/f with a 8.9:1 compression then it is with a 11:1 if u have the tuning ability and time, u can run boost with that high of compressoin. just remember, pump fuel only works for so long... with that high of compression or that much boost.. race fuel is needed

2nd. real power till the turbo hits in?? lol im at 14psi at 2800-3000 rpms.. dude with a set of aggressive cams and reving to 8k rpms.. how much low end power do u think your gonna have? ahahaha ur not gonan start making real power till 4-5k with cams.
a PROPERLY sized turbo depending on your goals will eliminate turbo lag or make it hardly notice able. besides you can only lay into it so hard off the line without spinning the tires...

3rd. dude your miss leading your self.. with aggressive cams your not going to have more power accross the power band then a turbo.. your power is gonna be up in the rpms... cuz thats where n/a cars spend their time.

u need to do some researching man... u dont sound like your ready to be dropping alot of money into your engine..... or maybe pick up a new hobby? pet rocks are pretty cheap




Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 2:34 PM
someone should build a 14:1 torque monster ecotec



Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 2:36 PM
Quote:

who said anything about pump gas and who said anything about lots of overlap?! there is stuff called race gas and there are these things called GM cam gears... they can work wonders


well yeah but i dont think your going to want to run your car on race fuel all the time.. that gets expensive.. idk around your area but here its 5.75 for 110 unleaded and about 6 somethign for leaded 114.



Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:28 PM
I'm only gonna run the bottle at the track... and its alot more expensive here, $6 something a gallon is cheap. Really, I've spent nearly $10k on this motor, I can think I can handle the cost of race gas.



Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:48 PM
first off adam you already know ill take your challenge when im done hahaha. second i believe it was you adam that mentioned higher compression is torque which i agree but i think i know what your talking about with there race manifold and 75mm TB that will be an rpm motor. me on the other hand i know that torque makes the time in the 1/4 unless you can rev to 8000 rpms in lightning speed, which i personally dont want to do, torque owns all. and thats my goal. and yes i have the stage 2 cams in my car right now but ill still bet my torque and hp numbers are pretty equal yet but its more noticeable right about 3000 which i can launch at 2900 so it doesnt hurt me any.

i guess we will just have to see what a good N/A ecotec is made when someone finally gets one done

and adam of course ill have aftermarket internals with 11:1 i have no choice in that so well make our challenge this way ill race ya wthout my nitrous when im done that way what the internals are made of doesnt make much of a difference and then when you upgrade your internals and up the boost ill race ya with my nitrous lol i think that sounds plenty fair



The one, the only, ME.
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:19 PM
It's fair Roy but in a way it's just not fair for you lol



www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837

Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:56 PM
dario wrote:An all motor 250whp will beat a turbo 250whp anyday.


umm, no. Don't get me wrong, i'm not bashing all motor setups, but to make 250 hp on a 2.2 liter you'd need wicked cams and thereby lose most of the bottom end torque and response that you claim a turbo doesn't have. In the case of all things being equal, on two ecotecs, there is virtually no way for a n/a motor that makes 250 peak hp to make more torque than a boosted eco making the same hp. Now if you were talking about a larger displacement engine that made 250 hp all motor, like say a V6 or V8, and had it in a vehicle of the same total weight as the boost eco, than MAYBE it would have a chance. But you must remember that in small displacement setups (and sorry, but the ecotec is still small displacement) to achieve high hp numbers you, generally have to make the engine rev higher and/or produce its torque higher in the rpm band.

If you really want to argue further, find me the dyno sheets of a 250 whp all motor eco and a 250 whp turbo eco, then we'll talk. One would assume that if a 250 hp all motor setup were guaranteed to be faster, someone would have done it by now, no?




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Monday, January 09, 2006 3:34 PM
To get an Eco to 250whp N/A is possible but a lot more expensive then a turbo setup, and a lot harder to do. Plus turbo's are funner to drive, especially with a blow off vavle. I'm sure if you just hiss it to a ricer next to you, he'll slow down. I've seen it many times down here. This city is filled with ricers (knowing almost half the 5 million population is hispanic; not being racist though.. just stereotyping).


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2208703
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:20 PM
I got an idea, how bout you all settle this on pinks. If you want to, i'll forward this thread to them.

Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:07 PM
you guys are forgetting some very important parts, this is what im considering doing since Im supercharged stock compression is 10:1

When alot go NA you go for a bigger bore this of course requires some machine work but if your going to do it do it right and if your going to go with a bigger bore you should sleve it I saw somewhere some sleves that allowed for up to a 90mm bore which is 4mm over stock not sure what that equals in displacement gain or if thats like .040 over or whatever in english terms, upping displacement will give you a nice gain moreso than just upping compression my master plan was to do 90mm bore 10:1 pistons with those sleves with eagle rods, then of course all the upper end stuff but that should provide a significant power increase bumping up the engine to 2.4 or 2.5L with boost then a MLS head gasket which drops the compression down to 9:8 which is even better than stock



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:56 PM
^^ Mr. money bags sleeves are $650-700, Install is another $600-700 IIRC.

Btw, my 11:1 pistons, Eagle Rods, Patriot head (thanks Hypsy!), Cometic Gasket, ARP studs, and other bits are goin in next week... not sure what to expect w/o HP tuners...



Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:52 PM
Rodimus Prime wrote:I saw somewhere some sleves that allowed for up to a 90mm bore which is 4mm over stock not sure what that equals in displacement gain or if thats like .040 over or whatever in english term
4mm over is equivalent to .160"
I'd like to be the first to say that the eco has a poor bore/stroke ratio for someone who wants to rev, making the 4mm over sleeves almost a necessity. On the other hand, the long stroke really helps out with the torque numbers.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:31 AM
so with stock length rods and 90mm piston bore whats that knock the ccs up to ?



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Friday, April 14, 2006 5:46 PM
Rodimus Prime wrote:so with stock length rods and 90mm piston bore whats that knock the ccs up to ?
rod length only affects compression, not displacement. So if you're asking about combustion chamber volume, I don't know. But, 90mm bore will take you to about 2400cc displacement.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Thursday, April 20, 2006 7:41 AM
To add to this thread, I called Wiseco Piston today to get a estimate on 11.1 compression ratio pistons for the 2.2 ecotec (which have to be made custom). Add $130 more per piston to the cost, the guy said they they were a domed piston. This defintely has deterred me into going boosted now. While Nitrous sounds nice, I like the idea of the power always being thier.


http://members.cardomain.com/ionnation
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Thursday, December 19, 2013 4:19 AM
I have a company that can make the 11:1 High-Compression Ecotec Pistons, they are $250.00 each, and i can order as many as you want. If anyone would like some send me any email at Phacue@charter.net
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, December 22, 2013 9:32 AM
Would you have to sleeve the engine doing a .020 over bore? Looking at dropping compression to 8.9:1 for a boosted application
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, December 22, 2013 2:13 PM
No
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, December 22, 2013 3:13 PM
7 years later..........





Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Sunday, January 05, 2014 4:10 PM
well ...

i sit here reading this super old post and just thinking of the good ol days of the ALL MOTOR battle a few of us had going on, it was the race to break into the 14s and then who could break 13s and then there was talks of Karo record being broken (13.17 @ 99) if i remember correct

well yes it has been many years and thousands and thousands of dollars spent .. well i was in HOT persuit to break into the 12s and not just 12.9 .. yea more like 12.7s. so in 2008 i made some big purchases (SMG's 4t45e transmission) and installed a LE5 crank into a L61 block (in theory more TQ and more compression) and then installed a accel dfi setup, well summer of 2009 finally got up on the dyno. ummm o yea with a wicked tuned intake and exaust and target 10,000 rpms (with old setup 180whp @ 7800)

so on that fall afternoon we fired it up on the dyno (guy running my car had ear plugs and ear muffs on) well i hate to say we never recorded any pulls cuz he was just in and out of the throdle just getiing AF numbers correct. i did see it hit 200 in second gear at near 9000 rpms. but short story umm we paused for a quick lumch and then continued. brought it up temp and shifted into second, and he stomped on it, i was watching the the numbers and at 9100 it was like he just turned off the key, it just shut off, well i walked calmly around the front and all i seen was a rod on fire in a puddle of oil i didnt know if i should laugh or cry or punch something. well that was fall of 2009 and its been parked in back garage on blocks since

but i had an itch to rebuild it last spring but my tax refund was lower than expected, but im now in the hunt of parts and maybe in 2014 will be a come back year

ooo and by the way i have 12.5:1 wiesco pistons

shoot me a txt
Ben 989-798-0518


Overall Best times

60' - 1.857 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
330' - 5.552 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
1/8 - 8.644 (7/25/08)-(Hoosier Drag Radials 225-50-15)
M.P.H. - 82.05 (4/20/08)-(Hoosier Drag Radials 225-50-15)
1000' - 11.229 (7/25/08)-(Hoosier Drag Radials 225-50-15)
1/4 - 13.410 (7/25-08)-(Hoosier Drag Radials 225-50-15)
M.P.H. - 104.95 (4/20/08)-(Hoosier Drag Radials 225-50-15)

** ALL MOTOR **
* 193whp @ 7600 rpm *
* 149 tq @ 5100 rpm *

Website: www.benwenzeljr.com

2005 GM Small Car Bash - Lost 2nd rd - H2 Class
2007 GM Tuner Bash - Runner Up - Broken Pressure Plate
2008 GM Tuner Bash - Winner - by default
2009 GM Tuner Bash - #6 in the Q8 (2008 ponitac solstice)
Re: High-Compression Ecotec Pistons
Monday, January 06, 2014 5:26 PM
Awhile ago I put together a parts list for an Eco hybrid running some off the shelf high compression F22C Honda S2000 pistons. Only block mod would be a 0.040" overbore.

SCR was 12.5:1. DCR was around 9:1 with some Cat Cams.



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