Ok, I 'm kind stuck on this one.

I have a 93 Cav wagon with the 3.1, with a tad over 141k...

I've been replacing a few things, but still to car will not turn over.


I just put in a new battery, fuses, and the alternator tested out fine.


I can't get the lights to turn on, or the gauges to even move (to show that the car has power)


I can only think of two things: A wire went bad somewhere, or maybe the starter....


What sucks even more is that I can't findthe repair book.



Does anymore have a good picture (or guide) of the wiring to the engine on a 3.1?



If I can't figure it out, this car could be in trouble...

Anybody?

Take the starter out and have it tested, most like the starter is bad. IF it isn't replace the battery cables and clean the battery terminals. Really sounds like a starter to me since you are getting power in the car. Is the battery loosing juice just sitting in your driveway? I have had to replace many starters on my cavaliers over the years so it wouldn't be a surprise to me if u needed one.

later,
Jon


Opinions are like @!#$,Everybody has One!

Do you get power at all? Do your headlights turn on? If not then you have a power issue. I could check things like the battery cables to make sure they're no bad. If you have power and it won't crank at all then I would look at the starter or your ignition switch might have gone bad.

Mike Aubin wrote:Do you get power at all? Do your headlights turn on? If not then you have a power issue. I could check things like the battery cables to make sure they're no bad. If you have power and it won't crank at all then I would look at the starter or your ignition switch might have gone bad.

No power at all. I just cleaned the battery cables, still no go.

Reaplacing them tomorrow.


My thinking at this point is that it is either the cables, or a wire somewhere...

ya if you not getting any power at all the starters not your problem... check the grounds and power wires and everything... bound to be something wrong there...

Ok, battery cables didn't help....


So sounds like a wire somewhere...this is going to be rough...

Well a quick look in my haynes with schematics shows there is a fusible link going to the starter.This is a red wire which u have 2 coming off the ignition and it would kill the power period. Without doing some more homework tonight even tho u checked the main fuse box under the dash I would also check to see if u have a fusible link going to the starter.This is what I recom bc I know my 1st gen has fusible links at the starter,and if blown kills the hot going to the ignition.I would buy a haynes manual at advance or auto zone it has all the schematics for 82-94 in this book.Cost 18.00 hope this helps

YEA THE LINKS ALWAYS GO EVEN THE ONE FOR THE ALT SEEN IT ALOT I HAVE GOT SOME GOOD DEALS THAT WAY LOL








CAVALIERKINGS

Ron Love wrote:Well a quick look in my haynes with schematics shows there is a fusible link going to the starter.This is a red wire which u have 2 coming off the ignition and it would kill the power period. Without doing some more homework tonight even tho u checked the main fuse box under the dash I would also check to see if u have a fusible link going to the starter.This is what I recom bc I know my 1st gen has fusible links at the starter,and if blown kills the hot going to the ignition.I would buy a haynes manual at advance or auto zone it has all the schematics for 82-94 in this book.Cost 18.00 hope this helps

Red wire? I'm going to check that as soon as thre rain gets out of here..


Thank you Ron, that gives me a place to start......


I just checked out a haynes....wish me luck....

The fusible links do go to the starter/alter and I do not have pics to show u exactly what to look for.Now my chiltons book 82-87 show a black and white pic of those but,they I think a pic would do justice.I will try to show a pic to u of my car with the 2.0 with the links so u have a idea what to look for.A description is the wiring looks like it has a butt connector wrapped in heat shrink and what it does is the fusible metal of the wire link melts to prevent doing damage to the circuit or component.I will try to do a photo for u when I can.

This is a pic of a fusible link going to my starter.keep in mind these links are different gauges so if u have to replace the link u need to repl it with the exact gauge link u may see the gauge #s on mine like 14 or 16.

Ok, tested the wires- all good.


The lights are on now (inside and out )


My guess is the ignition module....any thoughts?


And I hope that doesn't involve removing the steering wheel....

Hi Dave

what did you do to get the lights to come on?

Does the starter crank the engine over?

I would think it is something simpler than the ignition module


Alont

Surprising for me, nothing.


My dad changed/adjusted one of the battery connections, and we got some power back.


Still not turning over. Though it could be the starter, but the starter tests out fine.


As does the wiring.


Any thoughts?

Did you check the Negative Battery cable where it is bolted to the chassis/engine block?

You need to disconnect at the Battery end and then the other points (chassis/block),

make sure the cable ends and the connection points are "shiny" clean before reconnecting.

You need to disconnect them completely, clean and then reconnect.

This really seems like a problem with the Negative Battery cable connection--especially as your Dad changed/adjusted a cable and got some power back

If you do this and post back with the results we should be able to get you going


Alont

Yep, we did that.

Didn't work. Ideas, guys?

maybe the ignition switch. did you turn the key on and try to manual start the car with a screw driver on the starter?


Opinions are like @!#$,Everybody has One!

jon89z24 wrote:maybe the ignition switch. did you turn the key on and try to manual start the car with a screw driver on the starter?

Manual start

Hi Dave

I think jon89z24 means "Turn the key on and then short across the two large studs on the starter"

[This bypasses the Solenoid and places Battery +12 volts directly to the Starter]

This method does work but you may arc the threads of the Starter studs.

Before you do that I would:-

1. Check for +12 volts across the Positive and Negative Battery connections-Not the Battery terminals themselves [To ensure the Battery voltage is getting to the + ve and -ve cables.

2. Disconnect the small wire on the S terminal of the Starter.

3. Check between this disconnected wire and Negative to ensure you have +12 volts with the key turned to the "Start" position of the ignition switch. This is the wire that routes the 12 volts from the ignition switch to the Transaxle Position Switch-- Auto or Clutch Switch-- Manual.


Is yours a Manual or Automatic gearbox? There may be a fault/bad connection here

Switch the ignition OFF and remove the key.

4. Check for +12 volts on the Starter terminal where the large cable from Battery Positive connects [It should be a BLACK cable connected to B on the Starter which is fed directly from Battery Positive and is hot at all times the Battery is connected.]




Alont

Well a quick look in my online manual with http://www.chiltonsonline.com u can buy a manual to use with literally everything,I have had it for over two yrs. But anyway The wire to check would be the pink and black wire going to the main block between the inside to the firewall,it is the ignition or KEY start wiring as I see it (kinded tired) and ties into the starter with the fusible links.Being u know have lights these are two things I would look at 1 is if the ignition key is shorted in the steering column (sucks) u would have to pull the whl off,haynes manual breaks this down.2 unless for some strange reason u happen to have a automatic and the car is not fully in park (gear selector issue) yeah the car would not start but clearly does not explain the no power in my book.I say start checking the wiring for the ignition switch bc it does affect the ironically the power to everything and see with a test light if u are getting voltage at the main block btwn the inside and outside of the firewall.I am way tired and still trying to give u some insight to check things out.

Ahhh...so that's what he meant......


She's an auto.


alont- I will give that a try to check that out.


Ron-I'm really hoping I won't have to pull the steering wheel off... My dad will be checking that wire too....

I borrowed a copy of chilton's to help figure it out....loving the detailed pics....


Thanks for your help guys, hopefully I'll get this fixed...

Hi Dave

a little more info


There are two fusible links on the starter positive stud, Fusible links B [Rust] and G.[Gray]

1. If you have +12 volts at the alternator BAT terminal [The large one] Fusible link G is good.

2. If you have +12 volts at the Alternator Socket S [Disconnect the plug at the Alternator ,Check Pin S of the connector and then reconnect] Fusible link B is good



Alont

alont wrote:Hi Dave

a little more info


There are two fusible links on the starter positive stud, Fusible links B [Rust] and G.[Gray]

1. If you have +12 volts at the alternator BAT terminal [The large one] Fusible link G is good.

2. If you have +12 volts at the Alternator Socket S [Disconnect the plug at the Alternator ,Check Pin S of the connector and then reconnect] Fusible link B is good



Alont

They are all good.....

Well, the ignition module is being replaced here in the next few days (car is apart right now)


I 'll report back what happens...wish me luck!