Just to add about the ball joint info. N and J body replacement ball joints are interchangeable. I went through this last year on my swap. I even contacted moog about it, just to make sure. Only difference is possibly the grease zerk is moved, they fit fine. Have had two cars with combo of N and J parts up front.
^^ thats good to know. i always thought the n's were larger...
The N-Body ball joints for the STAMPED STEEL arms are the same as the j-bodies. The ball joints for the ALUMINUM arms are different and larger! Don't want any misinformation spread that could cause an accident.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
FYI, for anyone thinking of redrilling the N-body hubs, don't forget that the N-body hub bore is 70.3mm and the J-body hub bore is 57.1mm. This means that even with the correct bolt pattern, not all wheels will fit on there. If you have aftermarket ones with hub rings, you'd just need new rings.
As for redrilling the N or F body rotors, for the same reason, you would need hub centric rings for the rotors to go on the J-body hub.
Also, Brad, the J-body hub is taller than the N-body hub. This means you're either going to have to space the caliper brackets, or machine the spindle down further to account for it.
Just some things to consider.
^^ thanks. ill look into it.
so, i was told 5 interested parties would be needed to start the process so lets start a list. probably a cost of $100?? sounds fair to me... if its cheaper then great but i dont see how it would cost any more than that, even with powdercoating....
(just for INTERESTED parties, this is in no way a commitment to buy)
1.) Brad Wheeler (Z Yaaaa)
2.) Jason McElvy (Blwn LD9)
3.)
4.)
5.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:34 PM
I'd be interested
1.) Brad Wheeler (Z Yaaaa)
2.) Jason McElvy (Blwn LD9)
3.) Jeff Bussan (jucnbst)
4.)
5.)
i am holding off. with the irs swap it looks like i am going to end up with the n-body bolt pattern and just going to sell off my rims or put them on the wife's subaru.
Hey so i am getting ready to over haul my car's suspension. I think that this combo will work what do you guys think?
2005 5 spd sunfire
Unmodded 99 GA control arms
99 GA ball joint
H-Body knuckle (will these work with STD coil overs for J-Body?)
N-body spindle
N-body axle
H-Body caliper
I have dual pattern wheels 5x100 and 5x115
I just want aluminum parts and big brakes haha if this idea here doesn't work I am going to go with an all N-Body swap
Or am I just way off the reservation???????
What ever I do there will be pics and pics and pics. Thanks in advance!
-I drive my car to work-
Gerkn wrote:Sorry for double post, I feel dumb now. The J axles should work fine if you re-drill the N-Body control arm for the ball joint, correct? Are the larger F-Body calipers still light like the N-Body calipers? So the full parts list to keep things simplified:
Stock axles (3-spd, 4-spd, 5spd, etc),
1999 N-Body control arm re-drilled to fit.
99 N-Body knuckle,
99 N-body wheel bearing with 5x115 pattern
99 N-body brakes (caliper, rotor, pads) or larger F-body brakes
Rims to fit 5x115 pattern
Ok Maybe I'm over thinking this thing.... Can I just do an all N-Body swap un-modded 99 arms (j-body coilovers) and use the 2000 F-Body calipers (2000 Impala rotors) and mounts and no additional adapters or drilling?
-I drive my car to work-
So many routes to go with, but still the op and main reason this thread started was to stick with the original bolt pattern 5x100.
But I would like to hear a solution for either route.
GMR has got nothing on this
2005 Sunfire wrote:Gerkn wrote:Sorry for double post, I feel dumb now. The J axles should work fine if you re-drill the N-Body control arm for the ball joint, correct? Are the larger F-Body calipers still light like the N-Body calipers? So the full parts list to keep things simplified:
Stock axles (3-spd, 4-spd, 5spd, etc),
1999 N-Body control arm re-drilled to fit.
99 N-Body knuckle,
99 N-body wheel bearing with 5x115 pattern
99 N-body brakes (caliper, rotor, pads) or larger F-body brakes
Rims to fit 5x115 pattern
Ok Maybe I'm over thinking this thing.... Can I just do an all N-Body swap un-modded 99 arms (j-body coilovers) and use the 2000 F-Body calipers (2000 Impala rotors) and mounts and no additional adapters or drilling?
you would need camber adjustment on your strut mounts to run unmodded control arms. most basic coilovers do not have that. the bolt pattern is 5x114.3. this is all covered in the sticky. the f-body calipers are larger than n-body calipers so your rim choice is decreased
this is the start of my signature: have you read the
RULES yet?
my carDomain updated 6/11/10 Forged and Supercharged
s1lver_N1p (forum_Naz1) wrote:
you would need camber adjustment on your strut mounts to run unmodded control arms. most basic coilovers do not have that. the bolt pattern is 5x114.3. this is all covered in the sticky. the f-body calipers are larger than n-body calipers so your rim choice is decreased
Ok I have dual pattern 17" wheels so I am good on interior clearance and lug pattern. I am getting coil overs with camber/caster adjustment (STD R-5).
So an all N-Body swap plus F-Brakes should work?!?! If I am understanding this right that is epic!!!!
-I drive my car to work-
i'd be more interested in a bolt in wheel bearing with the 5x100 bolt pattern like jucnbst was in search of.
it would make it infinetely more easy to add the knuckles and still retain current wheels/aftermarket brake setups on the car. (although i'd need to look into whether they could be modified to work with the baer disc setup) I refuse to go wheel shopping again after the fiasco I went through to get my zigens.
are there no options to swap out the rear hubs to get 5x114.3 to match the front n-body hubs without going IRS?
this is the start of my signature: have you read the
RULES yet?
my carDomain updated 6/11/10 Forged and Supercharged
Roofy wrote:The N-Body ball joints for the STAMPED STEEL arms are the same as the j-bodies. The ball joints for the ALUMINUM arms are different and larger! Don't want any misinformation spread that could cause an accident.
Misinformation huh... how about the physical size being different for misinformation.
Grease zerk location is different between the two and thats about it. Been through all this already with MOOG. Talked to a tech and he gave me all the specs and even assured me it would be fine. Not to mention I have had this setup on two cars now and no problems at all.
So unless you think the grease zerk placement is gonna make someones car go off the road and wreck I would take it easy on who you accuse of spreading bad info.
Im interested as long as the funds are around when all comes together.
1.) Brad Wheeler (Z Yaaaa)
2.) Jason McElvy (Blwn LD9)
3.) Jeff Bussan (jucnbst)
4.)Cory Zepp (Z'sZ)
5.)
sweet, one more and were golden.
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:^^ thanks. ill look into it.
so, i was told 5 interested parties would be needed to start the process so lets start a list. probably a cost of $100?? sounds fair to me... if its cheaper then great but i dont see how it would cost any more than that, even with powdercoating....
(just for INTERESTED parties, this is in no way a commitment to buy)
1.) Brad Wheeler (Z Yaaaa)
2.) Jason McElvy (Blwn LD9)
3.)
4.)
5.)
I better start looking for a pair of steering knuckles
Jason
99 Z24
LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
they are easier than hell to find. malibu's, impala's, grand am's, alero's... hell even my pontiac montana has them LOL
^^^ Watch out on the earlier Malibu ones, as I believe they actually had iron ones for a while, even though they are similar to the GA/Alero ones.
I am working on another possible option. If I get time at work tomorrow I will investigate and see if my idea will pan out. If it does then it will be a cure all for the concerns we have with these hub/ fitment issues and retain 5x100.
RedCavalac wrote:Roofy wrote:The N-Body ball joints for the STAMPED STEEL arms are the same as the j-bodies. The ball joints for the ALUMINUM arms are different and larger! Don't want any misinformation spread that could cause an accident.
Misinformation huh... how about the physical size being different for misinformation.
Grease zerk location is different between the two and thats about it. Been through all this already with MOOG. Talked to a tech and he gave me all the specs and even assured me it would be fine. Not to mention I have had this setup on two cars now and no problems at all.
So unless you think the grease zerk placement is gonna make someones car go off the road and wreck I would take it easy on who you accuse of spreading bad info.
Observe....
The gold one is the aluminum control arm ball joint. It is physically taller than the steel grey one on the right. The taper is also different as well.
The actual tapered part of the ball joint stud is longer on the aluminum control arm ball joint. The difference in the shape of the taper is also evident here.
The top of the taper is pretty much the same between the two, meaning that the ball joints will physically fit either spindle...
BUT the base of each stud is different. Also notice the different cast in numbers on each ball joint stud."154" on the steel arm ball joint stud, "215" on the aluminum ball joint stud. These are different production piece numbers, meaning that the physical pieces are made to different specifications.
Using the steel (stock j-body) ball joint with the aluminum spindles will cause the spindle to sit closer to the base of the joint. It will also not make full contact between the tapered hole and stud surfaces, since the tapered angle is shaped different. There is also a risk of the spindle "bottoming out" on the bottom of the ball joint housing, and not allowing for enough flex angle for the ball joint to do it's job properly.
Using the aluminum (Grand Am/Alero) ball joint with the stock j-body iron spindles will cause the spindle to sit higher up on the ball joint studs. This will effect alignment angles to some degree. Also, it will keep the dust boot on the ball joint from properly sealing against the bottom of the spindle, potentially causing accelerated wear of the ball joint.
Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!
I understand what you are saying and can see the measurements. BUT with the stud being longer it should effect the taper, it is a linear taper though so it is still the same angle. All it is doing is making the knuckle sit at a higher spot with the taller stud. Your not accounting for the differences in the knuckles themselves or where the balljoint bolts to the arm steel vs aluminum. Im not debating that the aluminum arm one is slightly different, what I am saying is with a j knuckle run the j balljoint on the aluminum arm and its fine. Thats my setup and havent fully looked into other combinations of parts. Working on that....
