Over asked engine swap? - Third Generation Forum

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Over asked engine swap?
Friday, February 25, 2005 4:49 PM
I think this might be the right forum to post here. Or performance. Oh well.

I have a 2001 Caviler 2 door coupe. 2.2 auto. I think they come stock with what, 115 horse?

I will take two jobs this summer to fund my expedidtion so hang with me here:

I would like to do an engine swap with my cavi. I know it only has 88,000 miles on it, but I'm disapointed on a few things with it. What I want to do is either find, or rebuild a 3.4 to put in the bay of my cav. I don't plan to supercharge it so thats why it's a little blashpamas for me to be on this forum lol. When I joined (and forgot my name and pass) 4 or 5 months ago I read through the 3.4 post thats on this forum. But it doesn't spectificly always ask my questions, or atleast when I'm awake enough to comprehend it.

I want to go from the 2.2 auto, to the 3.4 manual. I don't have to change axles do I? Just the engine and trans? Also does anyone have somthing on converting the boot where mine is the auto?

Would it be safer/more productive to try and look around to pull an engine locally which gets hard around here cause I don't know where to look, or build one from the block up?

I think you can buy the 3.4 block for under $500 correct? But I also don't know how much buying one of a yard would cost? Aslo with the engine swap what parts am I able to carry over to the 3.4, from the 2.2 if any?? I will keep the 2.2 as it's not blown, but it's not imaculate.

I'm really interested in this and any links sites, any direction would help me alot. Thanks for taking the time to listen to a noob.

Re: Over asked engine swap?
Friday, February 25, 2005 10:33 PM
Also how hard would it be to cut the hole for, and install the clutch pedal.

I know I'm asking for a huge fight here lol, but I'm going to try to have everything laied out by the time I even think of starting. Including the wiring harness. Can anyone tell me if I'm going to have to change the shocks and struts? I'm not sure the differnce in weight with the two engines.
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:43 AM
Your swap is very do-able, but how much have you modded your car so far? I ask because if you haven't really done much to it, I would sell it and find a 2.2 5 speed car to start with. The 3.4 swap really isn't a huge deal when you've got all the right parts. The biggest thing to deal with is the wiring harness.

To swap from auto to manual you will need to change axles, but not shocks and struts.

There isn't a conversion kit for your shift boot, you just need to get the enitre console from the donor car where the tranny and shift unit is. Again, much better to just start with a manual car. If you find a 2.2 manual in good shape with a blown motor, you should be able to score it for cheap. If you're going to go ahead with the tranny swap, I would go to a salvage yard and see if you can get the whole front clip from a donor car (if you have the space for it). That way, you can have it right beside you and just pull pieces as you need them.






Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 3:48 PM
I thought reading on this forum the axle switch was not nessesary? Do you care to inform me why it is?

Will you take a look at this? From what Shifted says all that needs swaped is the tranny and pedal bolted and the cables have a spot to run though. And the console modified, which I'm sure the part can be ordered from GM directly.

My main problem is looks like will be finding a suitable engine around here with low miles. I't's a smaller place around here so prices are probably really freaking high.
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 10:02 PM
Someone in that post does not know the tranny to good . I think it was 04silvercavy who said the axles and tranny are all one piece . Well that would suck if you had a CV go out . You would have to replace the tranny because of the joint in an axle .

Prices on engine depend on several things one is how many salvage yards are in the area . But you also have availability and the 3400 is very common . Most GM cars come with this engine in them even base models . How many are already in the yards waiting for someone to buy them .

Take a look at the Ecotec when it first came out . To find one in a salvage yard or E-bay was expensive . But now that plenty of bad drivers have had their chance to put a few in the yards the price has come down quite a bit .

Don't forget the 3100 either , it can be used . But if you use a 3100 get one from a 2000+ because it will be using the same heads and intake that the 3400 has ( more flow ) .


<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~rdbryant1/index.html.html"><img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/mrgoodwrench/personal_pic.jpg" border=4></a>
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 10:54 PM
Thanks. So switching my auto to manual shouldn't be *too* difficult?

A friend told me (keep in mind he's not always on base) said that it would cost me around 1500-2000. I told him no way this was possible considering I could get a used running grand am for that. Albeit maybe not a great looking one, but running non the less.

My plan is get the engine with the tranny on it so I don't have to either rebuild one or buy one. This seem feasable for under 1000?

I'm probably wanting WAY too much. But like you said the 3400 and 3100 are not exactly rare engines. Fairly popular for the last 8 years.

The thing that really scares me the most is the wiring harness. Is there somewhere that explains that througly, your site maybe? But thats more of pictures, not nessesarly describing in full the headache the harness is. I wan't everything planned out as much as possible before jumping in to this. So playing out layout and everything is key for me.

One salvage yard around here is REALLY overpriced, and I think thats where my friend was thinking when he thought up that price. I'll probably call around to a few yards within 50-60 miles, I could take my dads truck to get the engine.

Thanks for any help. It's all very much appreciated.
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:05 PM
I'm pretty sure the 2.2 tranny bolts up to the 3X00 series engines. The hardest part of the swap is the custom subframe. If you plan on going manual, you have an even tougher time since I don't believe there was a 3X00 manual transmission engine, therefore no ECU to handle it.

Mr. Goodwrench's wiring harness was probably a lot more difficult since he is using the Tech3, if you found a suitable ECU then I think it would be a lot easier.





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Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:27 PM
Humm subframe? I though tit wasn't nessesary? I was probably missunderstanding before though.

Umm no grand am or alero was manual? Thats hard to belive!! How hard would it be to find a suitable tranny at a scrap yard? What would bolt up to the 3X00 engines?
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:34 PM
No edit button? Unless I'm missing it somewhere?

Then how did Mr. Goodwrench go to the manaul? Maybe I missed somthing in the beggining of this long ass post? I guess I'll go back and look. If you have an asnwer to the tranny quetsions please answer if you can. Inlcuding the one about Mr. Goodwrench and his manual swap.
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:30 AM
Yes, there were manual Grand Am's and Alero's, but both were either 2.2's or 2.4's (not sure if the Alero ever had the 2.2, but it did have the 2.4).

Mr. Goodwrench is using the Tech3 to get around is issue with the manual tranny. I could be wrong about the subframe on the 3100 or 3400, but I know the 3800 needs a custom subframe. You might be able to get away with a custom lower mount, which I think is what Mr. Goodwrench did.

As I understand it, any 2.2 transmission will bolt up, along with any of the 3x00 series (obviously). The problem with using a 3x00 transmission would probably axle length, along with needing to weld in new mounts.

Check my information though, I obviously haven't done this swap myself. Mr Goodwrench can answer these questions a lot better.





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Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:50 AM
Ok thanks. I didn't realize the higher engine's didn' come with it. Dang, that means I have to ad flywheel to the list.

Inform me of the Tech3. Not familar with it. I guess I'll try a searrch in the mean time.

Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 6:52 AM
Tech3 is a stand alone ECU from Electromotive.





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Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!

Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:47 AM
How much does it run? Cost wise?
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:12 AM
$3500ish





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Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 1:35 PM
You don't need a custom subframe for any of the V6 swaps. Turboman put a 3800sc in his car years ago without a custom subframe. If you plan on puting any real power and hard driving, you should do a custom subframe, but the 3100/3400 swap itself is damn near bolt in.

The only piece I was not able to find a factory part for was the lower torque mount. 94-97 Grand Am 3100 upper mount pieces will bolt right in to the J-Body upper mount, but the lower mount is off by about two inches. Mr. Goodwrench has a picture of this somewhere on his site.

As for the flywheel, try to get it when you get the tranny. The 2.2 flywheel works.

Also, for the ECM, you can get the ECM from the 3x00 reflashed for the manual tranny. Be prepared for some major wiring harness splicing too.






Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:24 PM
3500 is a bit much. I think I might aswell just do the auto swap then. I'd much rather have the manual...but it's not worth 3500.

Unless you have a better sugestion, I'll go with the automatic.

But the TEC3 is the ECU? Computer I take it? Is it needed or is there a workaround? Can I find a manual tranny that would bolt up to the 3X00 engine? I guess I'm not understanding what the TEC3 does. Can someone please inform me on the asap?
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:42 PM
Or do you know of another manual engine that would drop in as easily as the 3X00?
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 6:15 PM
I'm sorry for triple posting and all, but I'm off for a couple hours after this.

Converting the auto engine to a manual shouldn't actually be that hard...correct? Just installing the clutch and fly wheel.

But I couldn't use the stock ECU from the 3400 if I can get it? I don' t really need the monitors for nitro that come on the TEC3. I have to be missing something massivly. I'm sorry for my sheer ignorance but I'm curious.
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:53 PM
what shifted was trying to tell you is that there was no 3X00 manual GM car. so there is no ECU (computer) that can control it correctly stock. the only options would be get an after market ECU (TEC3) or use the stock ECU out of the GA/Alero and get it reflashed by GM to accept the manual transmission (if they are able to)




Re: Over asked engine swap?
Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:59 PM
So does the flashing cost more than the tec3?? I think I know a shop that can do it for me....
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Monday, February 28, 2005 9:12 PM
No, reflashing is not even close to the cost of an aftermarket EMS






Re: Over asked engine swap?
Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:25 PM
I've done some thinking. I may just swap the auto in for now... and If i get sick of it, within a year or 2 I can start on the manual... Do you think I could install the engine and THEN take it to the shop to be reflashed? No offence but I don't want to pay 2000 bucks when the job isn't honestly that hard....just time consuming. Now I just have to start calling and snooping scrap yards for 3X00 engines with good tranny's. Wait wait wait! I forget....Keep the stock ac compressor? or get the 3X00's? And someone posted a site where you can order that bottem "front" engine mount. I'd like to have that considering I don't have the tools to bend and weld the steel. Thank you!
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:39 PM
Why do you want a V6 in to first place, what r your reasons? Not being a dick, just curious.



Re: Over asked engine swap?
Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:54 PM
I am planning on doing the auto swap. I traded e-mails back and forth with Goodwrench for awhile getting info. He has lots of info for you if you are seriously concidering this swap. i do got a question though, is the stock fuel system strong enough to handle this V6 just fine or should i look at upgrading the pump?? I know i will have to upgrade this later when i supercharge so maybe i should just upgrade it before the swap. In my area (seattle) i can get the engine for $650, harness for $125, and ecu for $125 out of the junkyard, then just need to splice into my stuff. I will have the motor this summer and start adding some stuff from RSM racing to it, get it built now so i don't have to do it when i supercharge.


No mods...Yet
Re: Over asked engine swap?
Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:44 PM
My reason for wanted the V6 is that this 3 speed auto 2.2 is much to sluggish. And I don't feel the engine and deffinatly tranny are that strong or lasting.

I need to a decent scrap yard that will let it go for 650! Everyone around here must be ubsurd. How many miles are on that one Master?

I'm also wanting to get the 5 speed tranny as the 3 speed one that's stock is annoying really.
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