I am curious if anyone has tried this. I know it would not be a bolt on deal but I know the input shaft is the same amount of splines.
What all would be needed? A bellhousing adapter plate? Mounts?
Mark
http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
I believe it was said it would not fit, size wise.
FU Tuning
Will it even clear the firewall?
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Whats the point? The f23 is better and doesnt explode 3rd gear randomly.
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I would trust a f23 over a f35 any day. All an f23 needs is an lsd and its good to go. F35 needs to be redone to hold anything...
the f35 is junky junk.....i have heard nothing but issues from cobatl guys. i know one guy that has gone through 3 3rd gears all replaced under warrenty, and is about to just have the whole trans replaced.
Yeah the case flexes under load and makes the gears for 3rd gear strip tips of their teeth off, which leads to the rest of the teeth coming off.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
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OEM wrote:F23 is better then the F35? Humm I question that one. I was just wondering if anyone did the swap thats all.
Mark
I found that odd too, I always thought the F35 was better. The only probably Ive ever had was the stupid roll pin on the shift linkage, broke a few times and last time it broke, GM said that they will not warranty it because I had solid motor/trans mounts and quoted me to replace all the motor/trans mounts with stocks ones and the new roll pin.... Was going to be like $700 or something stupid. I bought a small alloy steel bolt the same size as the roll pin (was like $2 or something) and replaced myself, Never broke again. After looking on the cobaltss forums, I found out that was a common problem.
Im happy I have the F23 though, my friend had a 98 z24 with the isuzu, nothing but problems....
2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
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GM has had a LOT of issues with the F35. You will see a lot more failed F35's than you will F23's.
People think the F35 is better because the Cobalt SS models came with them.
Lee Josephs wrote:GM has had a LOT of issues with the F35. You will see a lot more failed F35's than you will F23's.
People think the F35 is better because the Cobalt SS models came with them.
Im not defending the F35 or anything, but ALL (cobalt ss/ion RL) F35 had over 200hp and most were not hard to make have +250-300whp so I can see there being more failed ones there. where 90% of the cars with F23s were in <150whp cars....
What is the known limit for the F23? what breaks first on them? just curious and im not saying F35 is better or anything, just have never heard that before so just wondering....
2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car
I am making 517 whp/ 501 wtq on my f23. Only has a modified OBX lsd.
I would say the diff is the weakest point and syncros.
I would say the weak link on the F23 is the shift forks. The the diff.
FU Tuning
i pulled my trans apart and my tips were my problem in my f23. i made 551whp and 475tq with probably 15 hits with slicks leaving at 6k rpm and i was on stock axles and obx diff.
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I have one I have to pull apart that I messed up the forks some how. I'll make fun things for the forks and stuff a diff in it and she'll be good to take whatever I can throw at her.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
I'm not trying to rock the boat here guys - think of it more as me trying to suggest an alternate opinin;
to the best of my knowledge GM has rated the Getrag F23 for 170ft-lbs, and hte 'GM Europe' F35 for 320ft-lbs;
This is why the SC & TC FWD vehicles got the F35.
Also, from what I've read 99% of the problems associated with F35 's has been owner abuse;
- I have not heard of anyone making well in excess of 300 hp/tq no lift shifting on their F23...
- I would suspect that the people who have built up F23 cars also have a clue how to drive, and know what they should not do to grenade their transmission ~ how many staged/tuned/bolted LSJ or LNF cars are driven by people who have acquired the respect/knowledge associated with doing a legit build - and still brutally abused their cars... not many...
I also know that it's very easy to create an opinion based on reading stuff online.
My only opinion against the F35 might be that I suspect the pipe-cleaner sized shifter cables don't respond as well to shifting fast - unlike my Getrag282 ~ which comparably seems to have gargantuan sized shifter cables...
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signatures are for loosers.
The f35 has the inherit flaw that the case flexes. that's death, weak gears, bad synchros, bad shift forks can all be fixed. A bad case design cannot. This tranny has shown it can take 600HP anti lag launches on slicks with the stock axles, (skunk or sqwirl irrc). Only people to do that with the f35 was zzp, and they did special stuff.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
If that was the case then wouldn't ZZP's transmissions have some sort of beefing up, or reinforcement of the case?
they don't... and I sure don't see any 'special stuff' being done...
Quote:
The transmission is completely torn down and cleaned, all parts inspected for wear, all gears are magnafluxed to check for cracking, new crush collars are installed during re-assembly, input and pinion shafts are measured for straightness, trans case is glass beaded, and all necessary components are shotpeened for added strength.
Differential bearing preloads are setup tighter than stock to prevent the diff. from moving in the case from the added torque and horsepower.
Input and pinion shaft bearing preloads are also setup tighter than factory.
All gears are detailed on the engagement edge. This allows for smoother engagement and helps strengthen the gear tooth. A sharp edge on a gear tooth is more prone to cracking than an edge with a smooth radius.
The input shaft is polished to allow the clutch disc to float freely on the shaft when the clutch is disengaged.
The shifter gate is modified to allow a smoother, faster, straighter shift from 2nd to 3rd, 4th to 5th, and reverse.
Oiling channels in the transmission are modified to promote better oiling at low and high rpms.
Stage 1 has 4.05 gears
Stage 2 has 4.45 gears
Also I count on cobaltss.net a whopping:
- 3 LSJ "built" cars which make more than 400ft-lbs...
- 10 LNF "built" cars which make more than 400ft-lbs...
- 1 LE5 "built" cars which make more than 400ft-lbs...
- 0 L61 "built" cars which make more than 400ft-lbs...
like I said most of the people who have reported issue.. seem to be abusing the transmission, and more often than not, things go awry during a (iirc) 1-2 no lift shift...
signatures are for loosers.
lol....... I think I invented 'no lift shift'
(/sarcasm, but that's how I always raced my Z. N/A, N2O, boost.... I didn't care. Slight stab at the clutch, foot to the floor on the gas, slam the next gear...... Missed shift means I bounce off the rev limiter...... Oh well)
I broke shift fork tips (a few times), and during one of my rebuilds, found a spider gear that started to fail..... but that was it. ps, I had JR Marks engine before him
(although with a little less power at the time) Ask anyone, I put "stock" F23's thru hell!!!! (LSD insert)
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Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:The f35 has the inherit flaw that the case flexes. that's death, weak gears, bad synchros, bad shift forks can all be fixed. A bad case design cannot. This tranny has shown it can take 600HP anti lag launches on slicks with the stock axles, (skunk or sqwirl irrc). Only people to do that with the f35 was zzp, and they did special stuff.
WTF? Skunk's car never hit 600whp and im not even sure if the Skwirl is even boosted yet. You need to start living in reality. Hahn's sunfire was the only 600+whp J on this site that i remember(F23 tranny too).
I've NLS my F23 without issues(230whp car) and beat the piss out of it at 220+whp for the last few years. No problems at all.
Error: Sig not found.
... you guys do realize that the hp (per say) isn't the determining factor right?
Torque is key.
That's not to suggest that a 600hp car doesn't make torque - but a (I'm just going to pick on you for a moment Tinkles- please don't take offense) 220whp car probably doesn't make in excess of 320 ft-lbs of torque...
LNF's with GMS1 make 320tq
with no other modifications - and a modded tuned LNF (the platform that sees these percieved flaws with the F35) makes in excess of 400ft-lbs...
that is all... please continue this discussion.
signatures are for loosers.
unruhjonny wrote:... you guys do realize that the hp (per say) isn't the determining factor right?
Torque is key.
That's not to suggest that a 600hp car doesn't make torque - but a (I'm just going to pick on you for a moment Tinkles- please don't take offense) 220whp car probably doesn't make in excess of 320 ft-lbs of torque...
LNF's with GMS1 make 320tq with no other modifications - and a modded tuned LNF (the platform that sees these percieved flaws with the F35) makes in excess of 400ft-lbs...
that is all... please continue this discussion.
My car makes over 500 wtq...f23 ftw!
SpeedRacerZ wrote:lol....... I think I invented 'no lift shift' (/sarcasm, but that's how I always raced my Z. N/A, N2O, boost.... I didn't care. Slight stab at the clutch, foot to the floor on the gas, slam the next gear...... Missed shift means I bounce off the rev limiter...... Oh well)
I broke shift fork tips (a few times), and during one of my rebuilds, found a spider gear that started to fail..... but that was it. ps, I had JR Marks engine before him (although with a little less power at the time) Ask anyone, I put "stock" F23's thru hell!!!! (LSD insert)
This reminds me I need to take a part the trans you had and see what everything looks like with all the abuse that trans took. Didn't like slicks all that much, lol.
