butch nackley wrote:

Adam rioticx wrote:As oncecleancavy said if you peel that off its gunna get crappy and take forever to get it right.

Actually, that isn't true. You just need to carefully brush off the old foam is all. I have done many headliners before and all of them came out nice and have stuck well.
You see your new glue may stick well to the old fabric, but the glue that is actually holding it to the board is old and will probably begin to pull loose, in part due to the extra weight of the new fabric/glue you just applied. You didn't do anything that would actually attach the fabric to the board
I hope it holds for a while, but it probably won't and you will have to redo it again soon

It is always best to completely remove the old fabric/foam and clean the board with a brush, then apply new glue to both the board and your new fabric/foam. Chances of it holding well would have increased greatly had you of done that.
While this may not be something you care about, another reader that is new to recovering a headline may find it useful, especially if they are trying to get high quality results
Seriously, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Your method is not the 'right' way and could be misleading to others.

Brushing off the foam is not the only problem. The glue GM used is almost like fiber glass and your not going to brush that off. If you try to get that stuff off you end up with a useless peice of cardboard that not only thin as a sheet of paper but flimsy and yes lumpy as all hell. Plus as I said earlier when applying the spray glue it soaks into the cardboard, and gives you no adhesion at all. Iv tried both ways, on two headliners. Leaving the old fabric on is the best way IMO. I went through a boatload of fabric trying different ways to do this.


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

onecleancavy wrote:

butch nackley wrote:You just need to carefully brush off the old foam is all.

It is always best to completely remove the old fabric/foam and clean the board with a brush, then apply new glue to both the board and your new fabric/foam.

Brushing off the foam is not the only problem. The glue GM used is almost like fiber glass and your not going to brush that off. If you try to get that stuff off you end up with a useless peice of cardboard that not only thin as a sheet of paper but flimsy and yes lumpy as all hell. Plus as I said earlier when applying the spray glue it soaks into the cardboard

You don't try to remove the GM applied glue, only the old fabric and any left over foam still stuck to the board. The glue has become 'part' of the board and will pretty much stay. You may fine some loose flakes of the old glue you can safely peal off, but any that is stuck fast can and should be left on.
It is the old foam that mostly looses adhesion.
Use a Heavy Duty adhesive that is made for headliners. Spray adhesive comes in different densities, depending on the need. Headliner spray is thick compared to light trim adhesive. Most better brands say on them if they are designed for headliners and those are thicker glue that will not be completely absorbed by the board.

If you want to cut corners, that's fine.
But lets also give examples of how to 'correctly' recover a headliner board along with the shortcut method. It may be of help to someone reading that has never done it and looking for information on how to achieve a good quality job.

butch nackley wrote:

onecleancavy wrote:

butch nackley wrote:You just need to carefully brush off the old foam is all.

It is always best to completely remove the old fabric/foam and clean the board with a brush, then apply new glue to both the board and your new fabric/foam.

Brushing off the foam is not the only problem. The glue GM used is almost like fiber glass and your not going to brush that off. If you try to get that stuff off you end up with a useless peice of cardboard that not only thin as a sheet of paper but flimsy and yes lumpy as all hell. Plus as I said earlier when applying the spray glue it soaks into the cardboard

You don't try to remove the GM applied glue, only the old fabric and any left over foam still stuck to the board. The glue has become 'part' of the board and will pretty much stay. You may fine some loose flakes of the old glue you can safely peal off, but any that is stuck fast can and should be left on.
It is the old foam that mostly looses adhesion.
Use a Heavy Duty adhesive that is made for headliners. Spray adhesive comes in different densities, depending on the need. Headliner spray is thick compared to light trim adhesive. Most better brands say on them if they are designed for headliners and those are thicker glue that will not be completely absorbed by the board.

If you want to cut corners, that's fine.
But lets also give examples of how to 'correctly' recover a headliner board along with the shortcut method. It may be of help to someone reading that has never done it and looking for information on how to achieve a good quality job.

Who said anything about cutting corners? I simply said I tried both ways and leaving the fabric on worked out better for me, IMO. I already posted the spray glue I used, 3M spray adhesive. Tried with a few adheisives as well, the 3M stuff I used worked great. You also have to remember im not hanging carpet off of the headliner. Its fairly thin material. I didnt just walk into this blind and decide this is the way to go. I went through a bunch of fabric and a couple headliners, different spray glues etc. Experimented and went with what worked.




"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

Well spending all that time you say you did, I would think you would have done it the correct way instead of what is considered 'cutting corners'.
Go to any reputable trim shop and ask them if they recommend putting new fabric over old. None will tell you that is a good idea. They will all tell you the same thing I did. Remove the old fabric and foam first. And you don't have to wear your board out to do it either.
And again, I am only pointing out the 'correct' way to do it, for those that may not know how to get the best results.

butch nackley wrote:Well spending all that time you say you did, I would think you would have done it the correct way instead of what is considered 'cutting corners'.
Go to any reputable trim shop and ask them if they recommend putting new fabric over old. None will tell you that is a good idea. They will all tell you the same thing I did. Remove the old fabric and foam first. And you don't have to wear your board out to do it either.
And again, I am only pointing out the 'correct' way to do it, for those that may not know how to get the best results.

Your not a very good listener are you butch?

I did read up on how to redo headliners. Like I said, I did not walk into this blind. I have tried both ways, dont belive me? Thats your own issue. I went with what worked, which was proven right in front of my eye's, with my own hands. Im not sure you have done a j body headliner, becuase then you would know some of the issues. Not relate back to what you seen in a youtube video. Dont like my opinion? You dont have too. By the way, plenty of others on this site have done it right over top of the old fabric, with great results.


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

Doing it the right way or wrong way...its still done and holding up nicely. Either way its a cheap car in which IMO there is no point in spending loads of money and time on...no resale ... Other than that ill be doing it again soon to a gti that im hoping to obtain

Ya i know the yellow doesnt match but i like it! Sorry for the aweful pics lol

.

And I like that you were trying to help others with the advice butch...but i was only looking for tips and tricks on putting it over top. Plus this isnt a write up >: P. Im extremely happy and proud of how it turned out. Now quit flaming lol .

Doesn't really matter how many people may have put new over old, that is not the point.
The point I was making that you don't understand is that I am letting people know how to 'properly' recover a board, nothing more.
You will not find any restoration shops, trim shops or any reputable installer that would leave the old junk on. It just isn't done in the business. These people have their reputations on the line and would never resort to leaving the old stuff on. If you don't believe it, call and ask them.
The youtube link I posted was just one I found that showed how to do it right, nothing more. However, it is how the pros do it and it is the way to get the best results.
I have put in headliners in J body cars before. Nothing any more challenging about it than any other type car. I put a new one in mine a couple months ago. I have done them for other people before too. In fact I put one in a Crown Victoria for my neighbor last week.
I have put them in a T-Top Grand Prix, a T-Top Trans Am, a hardtop Trans Am (those were mine). Many 1980's up GM cars of friends and family, including 3rd gen Cavaliers. Basically they are all the same when it comes to the method used to prep and attach.
One of my hobbies is restoring cars. Been doing it for 30+ years. My job is in product development in the upholstered furniture industry.

But anyway, this isn't about you being happy with your headliner. I wrote it for others that may be more demanding and want a properly applied headliner. If the correct method doesn't suit you, that is our choice. For some people, only the correct method is acceptable, myself included.

Just think about it a little bit. What you did and are recommending others to do, is like putting new paint over top of old peeling paint. Then later when the new paint starts peeling off, wondering why it is.
Anyone reading this, decide for yourself, but consider the negatives of applying new over old. Take into account the fact that glue you apply is doing nothing but sticking the new fabric to the old fabric and adding nothing to the adhesion to the actual board (the reason they begin to sag in the first place). Decide for yoursaelf which is the best way to go. Even though the proper method will take more time and work, it is worth it for the best results.
If you are after high quality, do it the right way.

Lol. Ok Im sure everyone gets it by now sir. Anyways, my thread about my headliner, yea...i think it is about my happiness. /end of ranting on how to properly do it. Comments welcomed tho.

I can list credentials too: I've been reupholstering for 64 years. I actually installed every fiber of fabric you will find in air force one, the white house and the pentagon with my eyes closed. Also I'm Elvis....

The point is there is more then one way to skin a cat. You telling me im not doing it the proper way is your opinion.

The headliner was never sagging in the first place. It was a simple redo of the headliner for looks purposes. I did not just go putting fabric right over top of a saggin headliner. These are the assumptions you came up with on your own. Its working fine for me and has worked just fine for others here. I tried different methods and went with what was working for me. Why is that so difficult to understand. Im not some backyard mechanic that just decided to slap up some fabric and cross my fingers hoping maybe it would hold, maybe it wouldnt.

Wont clutter up your thread anymore Adam, and nice job on the headliner. Looks good but yah it doesnt match up so well with the yellow


"Straight roads are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers"-Colin McRae

Hmpf! >:O ...lol trying to save money for something with a 5/6spd... ... so the sunfires spending limit is enough for gas lol. So nochange in color! Hah...sucks llol.

Headliner looks awesome. Cant say so much for the yellow.

Maybe Ill get off my lazy ass and do mine now.

it really turned out nice in your car... did u paint that ring around the sunroof?

Noooope, luckily mine was black. I'm starting to think the headliner was replaced before...cuz the rest of my car has black carpeting

onecleancavy wrote:The point is there is more then one way to skin a cat. You telling me im not doing it the proper way is your opinion.

The headliner was never sagging in the first place. It was a simple redo of the headliner for looks purposes. I did not just go putting fabric right over top of a saggin headliner. These are the assumptions you came up with on your own.

Come on now, you are starting to get silly.
It isn't just my opinion. Did it come from the factory with two layers of fabric? No, so to be 'correct', when done 'correctly' it will have one layer of fabric, period.

I did not say your headliner was sagging. I said the old glue is the reason headliners sag in the first place. I used your example of applying glue to only old fabric and how that will not help to restore the old glue that is holding it all up. So naturally it will be even more prone to sagging, since it now has added weight (the new fabric and glue) but no new adhesion to the board. Simple physics really.

I guess it really just comes down to how exacting you are about the car.

For the love of God! Listen to the expert! Get the old material off, and save yourself the slight possibility of your headliner sagging and really hurting someone! Plus, you run the risk of having the minor inconvenience of spending $20 on new material and recovering down the road.





I don't think there has been an instance of such an in depth conversation on the subject of gluing cloth. Call me crazy, but simple physics tells me that the headliner is not a highly structural part of the car and isn't important enough to warrant five responses warning of the "dangers" of improperly gluing a headliner. This wasn't your one chance to throw your weight around was it?

Adam rioticx wrote:Noooope, luckily mine was black. I'm starting to think the headliner was replaced before...cuz the rest of my car has black carpeting

lucky you haha If I knew the paint would stick well, I'd paint it right now. I might try anyway because the tan looks out of place in my car.

butch nackley wrote:

onecleancavy wrote:The point is there is more then one way to skin a cat. You telling me im not doing it the proper way is your opinion.

The headliner was never sagging in the first place. It was a simple redo of the headliner for looks purposes. I did not just go putting fabric right over top of a saggin headliner. These are the assumptions you came up with on your own.

Come on now, you are starting to get silly.
It isn't just my opinion. Did it come from the factory with two layers of fabric? No, so to be 'correct', when done 'correctly' it will have one layer of fabric, period.

I did not say your headliner was sagging. I said the old glue is the reason headliners sag in the first place. I used your example of applying glue to only old fabric and how that will not help to restore the old glue that is holding it all up. So naturally it will be even more prone to sagging, since it now has added weight (the new fabric and glue) but no new adhesion to the board. Simple physics really.

I guess it really just comes down to how exacting you are about the car.

We get it, your way is the only way. Now GTFO, fggt.




its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa

Tinkles wrote:Now GTFO, fggt.

Does your mommy know you are playing on the internet again?

butch nackley wrote:

Tinkles wrote:Now GTFO, fggt.

Does your mommy know you are playing on the internet again?

just quit butch...its getting Rediculous...

Jake idk what kinda paint would work...I feel like it would all chip off. Maybe if there's one with a flex adhesive. In it... hmm

Adam rioticx wrote:

butch nackley wrote:

Tinkles wrote:Now GTFO, fggt.

Does your mommy know you are playing on the internet again?

just quit butch...its getting Rediculous...

Jake idk what kinda paint would work...I feel like it would all chip off. Maybe if there's one with a flex adhesive. In it... hmm

I painted mine, I believe it was duplicolor vinyl paint, worked great.

o ok thanks! I will have to try that then

I was not too sure I would have a positive comment for your work using plaid BUT I have seen the pics and I am very impressed... I' m coming around more to fabic covering now... OP, you did an awesome job and it looks really well done !!!!




2003 Cavalier
Stock 2.2 Liter, 5 speed
" Leave the rice to Uncle Ben's and the wings to KFC..
Go clean or go home. "

guys leave the fabric on i did.



butch sorry but these guys arn't building show cars and doing restorations. most of them will only have these cars for 3-4 years so it doesnt make sence to go to a shop to have them totally remove the old stuff. hell my car is going on 10 years old now. my first liner lasterd me 6 years before i replaced it and it was still holding the vinyl applied fine. majority of these guys will long have gotten rid of there cars before the glue on the headliner gives way. im all for doing things the right way but for 99% of these guys its not going to matter.

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