another reason i love the eco, it can take some serious knock. hopefully you aren't maxing out injectors or starving your fuel pump. I mean you are taxing your whole system quite a bit going from N/A to boost. 42# injectors are probably close to on the small side for what you have planned. I think I have 75#ers. Come to think of it, I was at like 80% duty cycle with my 42.5# injectors when I was at the 323/285...
(Scratch that, forgot you have port fueler....)
keep us posted!
Ya the AFR is totally fine, its like 10.8:1 with the meth, trying a new tune later tonight, if that doesn't work I'll turn down the boost to confirm if it is infact real knock and not the off chance that it is phantom knock.
If that fails, I dunno wtf I'm gonna do, maybe come colder plugs. If that still don't work I'm sorta @!#$ aside from bringing down the compression with a new head gasket.
what plugs are you running right now?
I think with the l61 head I had LTR7IX-11. That should be 2 steps colder.
My LSJ head plugs are BCPR7EIX which are 2 step colder as well.
Im running BKR6E's.
I dropped put my new tune on and dropped the boost to 9psi and no knock.
I then tuned the boost up to 10psi and it was registering 8.0* of knock, tried another run, no knock, tried another run 4.0* of knock, another run, no knock.
Maybe this is a phantom knock issue.
I wonder why you would see so much knock from 1psi of boost...
If you keep seeing knock, try the BCPR7EIX's. They are an iridium plug. Since I put boost on my car, iridium is all that I have ran. If you were local, Id just give you the 1 step colder version of the BCPR7EIX I just pulled out of my car that I used for idling the car to swap to the 2 steps colder.
What if you take more timing away does it do it?
What are the AFR's when it is knocking? I know earlier you said it was really rich. I have found the Ecotec likes to show knock when really rich.
FU Tuning
I tired to pull timing and it doesn't seem to affect it, currently sitting around 10.8:1 AFR with the Meth spraying.
Not sure what the AFR would show without the meth on, as I've never tried it.
newt wrote:I tired to pull timing and it doesn't seem to affect it, currently sitting around 10.8:1 AFR with the Meth spraying.
Not sure what the AFR would show without the meth on, as I've never tried it.
with or without the meth I would try to get it to 11:8 and see what you have.
FU Tuning
Really? That lean? I thought you don't really wanna go higher than like 11.4?
I'll give it a shot if all else fails.
I think I have a loose charge pipe that is vibrating against my oil pan...I hear it knocking against it at idle. So I'm gonna get that fixed up this week, toss some BKR7E's in it (I am a bigger fan of copper plugs over Iridium ones) and see what that does for me.
I'll lean it out some and see what that does as well.
First race is this coming Sunday, so I need to get my ass in gear.
I'm also a fan of the copper plugs. I have found the ecotec likes leaner. I have went as lean as 12.2
What are you gapping at?
FU Tuning
Its been a while, but IIRC 0.028"
newt wrote:Its been a while, but IIRC 0.028"
I ask because NGK does not recommend changing the gap more than .08 from the factory setting. the 6509's and 6510's come at like .044.
I normally recommend the 3787's. They are gapped at .032 from the factory. They do cost more, but so far have not had anyone have issues with them. Roughly $50 a set.
FU Tuning
I can't run those plugs because I no longer have a L61 head, I'm running the LSJ head.
They use crush gasket plugs and not the tapered seat plugs.
since ur running meth injection i find it very hard to believe that its actually knocking.
M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Thats what I am thinking as well, its a rather large nozzle as well, supports 400+HP.
But then again, 13psi on my motor should crank out 380ish whp.....so who knows.
I'm gonna dig into this hopefully tonight, solve that charge pipe issue and see what happens.
New plugs are on order and will be in on Wednesday, no one had them in stock
Newt, my friend...
11.8 is NOT lean for a turbo setup. In fact it's ideal... 12.2 is getting to the mean and lean side.
I keep most of my boost tunes between 11.7-11.8 afr.... at 10.8 you are still quite rich.
Also you need to tune with the meth off first, remove that variable and get the AFR and timing dialed in safe without it.... then turn it on and see what changes occur to AFR, fix that then start advancing your timing slowly.
Lastly, I noticed that you said you have retarded all of 5 degrees from the stock file... aren't you on a higher compression engine or am I incorrect on this?
I am honestly wondering if your timing really is too high to begin with, though I know that ecos love timing. A usual SAFE starting point is 0.5 to 0,75 degrees of retard per psi of boost meaning at peak boost of 13 psi you should see anywhere from 6.5 degrees of retard to 9.75 degrees of retard as a starting point.
Over richness does like to cause knock so you need to get that evened out first.
Keep us updated!
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
newt wrote:I can't run those plugs because I no longer have a L61 head, I'm running the LSJ head.
They use crush gasket plugs and not the tapered seat plugs.
I did not catch that. I know the 3787 can be used on the L61 and the LNF.
FU Tuning
How far out are the ltft?
see ya!
Chris - I guess my knowledge of boost tuning is a bit rusty... I will try and lean it out and see what happens. Yes the motor is around 11.3:1 Compression, which sounds high as a static compression but my cams my dynamic compression is almost the same as a stock 2.2 Eco. I didn't know there was a formula, for removing timing for boost, but I think I've pulled 8 degrees out already....so maybe you have a point there....
Once I get that charge pipe fixed I'll lean it out and see if either of those fix my issues.
John - No worries, the BKR7E's are on order and will be in tomorrow. At $2.30 a plug if they stuck I'm only out like $10 bucks. LOL
novaracer - I don't even look at my LTFT's to be honest, I just read what comes off my wideband. Actually I always assumed since I have the portfueler they would be way off anyways, but as I'm thinking about it, the car can't read airflow or manifold pressure so it wouldn't realize either way.
I really appreciate the helps guys, its nice to not be totally in the dark when it comes to this stuff!!
The brothers LNF cobalt liked 12.2-12.4 afr, but I think that is because of the direct injection. It knocked a lot at 11.6 afr, or lower afr.
Most of my turbo ecotec buddies shoot for 11.8-12.0.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Hmm this AFR thing might be my issue afterall then, still gonna fix that charge pipe tho.
-MD- Enforcer wrote:The brothers LNF cobalt liked 12.2-12.4 afr, but I think that is because of the direct injection. It knocked a lot at 11.6 afr, or lower afr.
Most of my turbo ecotec buddies shoot for 11.8-12.0.
Thats right....because of the direct injection the LNF can go leaner.
Philly D wrote:-MD- Enforcer wrote:The brothers LNF cobalt liked 12.2-12.4 afr, but I think that is because of the direct injection. It knocked a lot at 11.6 afr, or lower afr.
Most of my turbo ecotec buddies shoot for 11.8-12.0.
Thats right....because of the direct injection the LNF can go leaner.
some go as lean at 12.8 on a LNF.
If I'm tuning for someone who knows nothing about tuning, or does not have the option to adjust the tune, then I go for 11.7-11.8.
FU Tuning
So it isolated my charge pipe with an old coupler I had laying around so it no longer can vibrate against the oil pan and welded a bracket to the charge pipe and bolted it to the oil pan so it really can't move now.
I seem to have developed a rather massive boost leak tho...I think I might of put one of the couplers back on crooked.
Back in the shop it goes tonight....FML.
Boost leak fixed.
I get clean runs at 11psi now, haven't pulled any fuel out yet as I didn't have the software installed on my laptop. I get a bit of knock (1.5*) around 4200rpm but other than that its clean. Timing is back up to -5.0* from stock. So it was picking up some false knock from the charge pipe vibrating.
Still showing 8.0* of knock at 14psi tho, gonna pull a bit of spark around 4200rpm and lean it out tonight...see what I end up with. Maybe pull a few degrees totally as well before I turn it up to 14psi.
