I think it's a bunch of bull@!#$.
The bible may have been written by a bunch of so-called "wise men" but it's just a book (in my books). I have a copy of the Bible... but I don't think it's some wonderful thing. It's just a book. I have lots of books.. but most of them are way moer exciting
If there WAS some powerful force that made human beings the way they are... that 'force' sure doesn't give a @!#$ about us anymore. We're like a baby given up for adoption.
Praying is a waste of time. Nobody has any proof it is good for anything.
Religions are one hell of a way to raise money from stupid people.
Hey... how about the "Church of Lenko"??? Give me money!!
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I agree 100%
cept about adoption, I am adopted and was adopted because my biological mother could in no way afford a child at her age
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
Sorry, I didn't mean the adoption bit as being bad or anything... I just didn't phrase it very well.
I should have said "left to fend for ourselves" since no one adopted us humans anyway
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i agree, at this point. "god" as most modern-day religions see "him" does not exist.
besides...we're just the afteraffect of a giant astral fart anyway.
grrquack.
Depends, Lenko, What kind of support will you be willing to give to Keeper of the Light™ Industries?
And you're wrong, though...
God lives in a Nuclear Sub.
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
In my eyes, god is something men made up to give themselves something to cling to when all else fails (crutch). My point is that simple.
Where do I send my donation? I'll join the Church of Lenko...
Pretty bold..nice way to slap 3.4 billion people in the face. It obviously doesn't work for you..fine, but it does for a lot of people. I'm not going to get into a flame war but prayer absolutely does have a purpose.
I have not seen my grandfather since I was 6 years old. My mother dispises him for the emotional damage he's caused her his whole life. Therefore I grew up without him in my life. My mother is very religious and my grandfather is not at all. My mom recently began talking to him on the phone a few years ago, but he's made very minimal progress to heal her wounds. Last year she was in California and God prodded her to go and visit him..they had not seen each other for 17 years. They met but nothing really happened because of it. She recently began praying for God to supply our family with some extra money to take care of repairs around the house. We aren't wealthy and our air conditioner broke last week. We got a quote for a new one for $6000 dollars. My parents decided to pray about it to see where we could come up with the money. The same exact day I was on my way to the gym and my mom asked me to get the mail. I did and there was an envelope in the mail from my grandfather. I gave it to her and she opened it. There was a check in it for $5000. There was no warning or anything. She called my grandfather and he said that he just thought that she could use the money. This is from a cheap-ass grandpa that never sent me any money or presents ever in my lifetime for christmas, birthday or graduation.
This is not a coincidence. Everything my family prays for we seem to receive, within reason..not always this quickly but eventually. So don't tell me prayer doesn't work. And don't tell me God has abandoned us. He sent his own Son to Earth to be killed so that we don't have to suffer for eternity. I know that doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to me. So do me a favor don't go spreading negative propaganda about something you know nothing about and have given little effort into. God has already given you enough, life alone is sufficient. You expect him to always reach to you. You abandoned him, not the other way around..stop being so damn selfish.
Welcome to the world of free thought, unabridled by preconceptions of a force more powerful than yourself. Free from an inherent sense of inferiority as defined by organized religion. Or as hardcore religiotypes would say, welcome to the world of "sin."
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God and religion are crutches for the weak. Dedicating you life to a book is ridiculous. Religion is a business and followers are the customer. Until facts can prove the existence of god I will remain a hardcore atheist. Also, if god created everything then who created god? He can't just appear from nothing.
youre entitled to your opinion
and people are entitled to theirs
thats why you should just let them be
as they let you be
except the damn witnesses. they are too pushy
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WARNING: You may and probably will be offended by what people have to say here!
AnDaZZo wrote:Pretty bold..nice way to slap 3.4 billion people in the face.
I highly doubt 3.4 billion people read this forum.
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we are entitled to believe what we choose... God gave us free will. and if you dont believe in God or "a God" however you wish to look at it, then fine... it is your decision.
and just as you put your opinion, i will put mine... (not looking to get into some huge war)
i believe in God... i believe in the power of prayer and believe that i have seen first hand the results of what prayer can do... i do not believe religion is for the weak; which is harder, to "believe" in only things we can see for our eyes or just with our hearts?...
just as you say it is weak to believe in God... i can turn around and say it just as weak to believe only if you can see things with your eyes?
"Dedicating you life to a book is ridiculous" I AGREE! i dedicate my life to The Word of my Lord and savior!
lenko: why do you say
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If there WAS some powerful force that made human beings the way they are... that 'force' sure doesn't give a @!#$ about us anymore. We're like a baby given up for adoption
can you explain your resoning of this??
Godsspeed wrote:
lenko: why do you say
Quote:
If there WAS some powerful force that made human beings the way they are... that 'force' sure doesn't give a @!#$ about us anymore. We're like a baby given up for adoption
can you explain your resoning of this??
Sure... show me some unsubstantiated proof that <insert all-powerful force that you believe in here> has done ANYTHING to affect today's world.
I've never seen an "act of God". Other than the natural weather forces that my insurance company claims are "Acts of God" which is BS.
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I have not seen my grandfather since I was 6 years old. My mother dispises him for the emotional damage he's caused her his whole life. Therefore I grew up without him in my life. My mother is very religious and my grandfather is not at all. My mom recently began talking to him on the phone a few years ago, but he's made very minimal progress to heal her wounds. Last year she was in California and God prodded her to go and visit him..they had not seen each other for 17 years. They met but nothing really happened because of it. She recently began praying for God to supply our family with some extra money to take care of repairs around the house. We aren't wealthy and our air conditioner broke last week. We got a quote for a new one for $6000 dollars. My parents decided to pray about it to see where we could come up with the money. The same exact day I was on my way to the gym and my mom asked me to get the mail. I did and there was an envelope in the mail from my grandfather. I gave it to her and she opened it. There was a check in it for $5000. There was no warning or anything. She called my grandfather and he said that he just thought that she could use the money. This is from a cheap-ass grandpa that never sent me any money or presents ever in my lifetime for christmas, birthday or graduation.
This is not a coincidence. Everything my family prays for we seem to receive, within reason..not always this quickly but eventually. So don't tell me prayer doesn't work. And don't tell me God has abandoned us. He sent his own Son to Earth to be killed so that we don't have to suffer for eternity. I know that doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to me. So do me a favor don't go spreading negative propaganda about something you know nothing about and have given little effort into. God has already given you enough, life alone is sufficient. You expect him to always reach to you. You abandoned him, not the other way around..stop being so damn selfish.
you should be thanking your grandfather not the lord for that. He was very generous and provided you with something that you WANTED not needed. I doubt if there was a god he would be going around helping people buy AC. Thats no miracle just coincidence...if you pray for everything that you want someday you will get something you want. If you just think about things you want then someday you will get something you want. My grandmother gave me 10,000 dollars for tuition this fall...i didnt pray for it but i sure as hell thought it would be nice...and guess what...i got it without praying.
and also what leads you to believe jesus was gods son?
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i dedicate my life to The Word of my Lord and savior!
who communicates gods word to you? who communicates it to them? how does this communication take place?
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john, as much as i would love to be able to show people undeniable evidence of God or of His acts... i cannot. and as i stated in my prayer request thread...
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if i coud give you proof that God exists, i would be the most famous man alive in the whole world... however, thats obviously not the case. for me or anyone else. and i believe it is suppose to be like that!! i understand what youre saying, and although i disagree that religions are just something humans have made up i can understand your train of thought.
but here me out...if someone were able to prove that God existed, or not... then Faith would no longer exist. we would not be required to believe in God. however, it is our belief and trust in Him that is the main point!!!!!! if we knew He existed then no one would have faith in Him cuz they would know for a fact.... i was clueless with this question as well... if He exists, how can we prove it!? however, in my astronomy class (i was prollly just spacin off...hahaha) the idea that us not being able to prove it is EXACTLY how God wants it to go.
sure, anyone who doubts His existence and the orgins of Chrisitanity can say, "oh thats convienant!!! you have no proof so you just make up that you're not suppose to have proof!!"
i dont like to cling to any specific church, so i wont go into that...
i have proof... but its not the physical kinda that everyone is looking for. its a risk, it takes a big step on our part to put our trust in something that we dont know for sure exists, and people who say that they dont believe and will wait until they see hard evidence... well im sorry, but i dont think you'll ever find that.
but my proof is all i will ever need!!!! and when someone finds their proof... its all they need to believe as well.
you or those with believe similar to yours may like to turn around and rest on the repeated statement...that it is something else we've just made us of our weakness... and that you will believe in God when you get your proof... well, until the walls are knocked down, then and only then, will you be able to see the proof. i believe in God and i have not seen any of the evidence that you all are looking for, but the "evidence" that i have seen and endured is by far more than enough for me. and for the rest of us 3.4 billion people...
one cannot see an act of God if they do not acknowledge His existence...
im not sure what the point of this thread is really... this is a debate that has been going on for centuries and will continue to do so until the end of time... but just as you seek "unsubstantiated proof" that God exists and created the world and all that, i ask you to show me "unsubstantiated proof" that we
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we're just the afteraffect of a giant astral fart anyway.
as falnfenix put it...
prove to me that God is made up, or that the bible isnt real....
you cant!! and since you cant and i cant, we cant prove or disprove either side.
hence why this debate is STILL going on!
but, if no one ever talked about it... who would ever hear?
John Lenko wrote:Godsspeed wrote:
lenko: why do you say
Quote:
If there WAS some powerful force that made human beings the way they are... that 'force' sure doesn't give a @!#$ about us anymore. We're like a baby given up for adoption
can you explain your resoning of this??
Sure... show me some unsubstantiated proof that has done ANYTHING to affect today's world.
I've never seen an "act of God". Other than the natural weather forces that my insurance company claims are "Acts of God" which is BS.
Just because you yourself have not witnessed an act of God does not mean it doesn't exist.
That's what I dislike about anti-religion individuals. They need to see "proof" and they need to KNOW that he exists before they will believe it. No, it's called faith for a reason. If you needed to SEE everything in order to believe it, then how would you get anything done? How would you know Antarctica exists? How would you know Ethiopia is a 3rd world country? Have you been there? Have you seen it yourself? No, but you better bet you believe both exist.
I think it's great God gave us free will and you have the right to say whatever you want, but why did you bother posting this Lenko? I don't hate you or dislike you, but what point did it prove? Why is it OK for you to post this about saying how much you hate God and if I were to post something saying "I love God, he saved my life, and I look up to him every day" you guys would be on me quicker than flies on poo. You scream out for equality by saying "oh freedom of speech, why are you telling him he should believe in God, he can post whatever he wants" and then when we try posting something about how we feel we get crap for it?
You say us religious people are unfair, man, take a look at some of you. You obviously haven't been touched like I have. I wait for something to touch you before you get a wake up call. Maybe you will never believe in God, that is your choice and I cannot force you, but I hope you atleast consider it. Christian's and Catholic's are not "corrupt", if you go to a service you will find they are some of the most welcoming and supportive people you will meet all day. Alot of you are brainwashed to believe that all the church is is a bunch of corrupt, child-molseting freaks. No church that I have been to in my entire life has shown me corruption and that they wanted to "molest" me.
I believe that once are deceased and go to the afterlife, you will know everything you need to know about religion.
Call me dumb, call me stupid, call me brainwashed, argue with me until the sun goes down, whatever....... I still believe in God and will stand by that fact until the DAY I DIE.
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who communicates gods word to you? who communicates it to them? how does this communication take place?
he's not saying that he hates God... at least hasnt said those words
and i agree... i have met/seen some of the most accepting/welcoming/loving people in a church! but at the same time i have seen the exact opposite in a church as well...
and sadly enough, it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch!!
and john, and everyone else... i want to let you know that i do not hate you, dislike you in ANY way because of what you believe. i have just as many "non-believer" friends as i do "believers" and despite your personal experiences, please do not try to put all Christians in the same pile as those you have seen who have treated you with disrespect...
Godsspeed wrote:Quote:
who communicates gods word to you? who communicates it to them? how does this communication take place?
he's not saying that he hates God... at least hasnt said those words
and i agree... i have met/seen some of the most accepting/welcoming/loving people in a church! but at the same time i have seen the exact opposite in a church as well...
and sadly enough, it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch!!
and john, and everyone else... i want to let you know that i do not hate you, dislike you in ANY way because of what you believe. i have just as many "non-believer" friends as i do "believers" and despite your personal experiences, please do not try to put all Christians in the same pile as those you have seen who have treated you with disrespect...
That is true. It does only take one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch.
And I do not hate anybody whether they believe in God or not.... just to set that straight also.
Godsspeed wrote:but, if no one ever talked about it... who would ever hear?
Interesting perspective. The debate is just another way Christians can help spread the word. If these type of topics were never debated, a lot of people would never think outside of their box, and never open their minds to what else could possibly be out there. I'm not saying that these debates will ever change your hearts to follow God, that takes personal experiences, but at least, for the most part, they can be thought provoking.
And that's a good thing.
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Also, if god created everything then who created god? He can't just appear from nothing
Hmm..so how exactly did the universe come into existence? From nothing? Space Dust? Yeah right..then who created the space dust? It doesn't just appear from nothing either. If we came from dust and leave a dust what is the point of life.
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He was very generous and provided you with something that you WANTED not needed.
He is not generous at all. He is one of the most selfish, self-centered men on the Earth. That is why none of my family has spoken to him in over 15 years and my mother is the only one trying to make amends with him. You are so naive. The money was not provided because we wanted a/c or anything else like that. The money was a symbol that God is more powerful than you can image. He can change the heart of a cold old man. The money was a reward for my mother's faithfulness to God and being open-minded and reaching out to him when no one else would. Say coincidence all you want, you have no faith so I don't blame you. But this happens time and time again.
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grandmother gave me 10,000 dollars for tuition this fall
Well congratulations, people get gifts all the time. My grandmother gave me $6000 to buy my first car. I didn't pray about that either. This is different though. Christians want feedback on their faith, no one wants a relationship that is solely giving. The monetary reward was the feedback this time. But that is one of the few rewards it is. Most of the time it is not. I'm sure my mother would gladly have a loving father rather than $5000. If you can't see that that's also part of the reward I feel sorry for you. We did thank my grandfather, but is almost impossible to believe that one day, an individual such as himself would just hand over $5000 for really no reason. If life is all just a bunch of coincidences than I will be really sad because you ultimately have no control over your life. Have fun while you're on Earth, but in the scheme of reality we aren't human beings, we are eternal beings. And if you are going to waste your 80+ years just having fun, you might end up regretting it once you spend the next infinity years not having so much fun. 80 years out of billions and billions of years is not really worth it.
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and also what leads you to believe jesus was gods son? who communicates gods word to you? who communicates it to them? how does this communication take place?
Well have you ever attempted to open the Bible? All the answers you need are right there in plain text for you to read. I know it's a big book and intimidating..but give it a try. I believe Jesus is God's son because unlike every other prophet before and after him, he was able to defeat the biggest obstacle of all, death. Ordinary people don't just overcome something like that. Heck, the pope is still dead isn't he. You might say it's hearsay, but thousands watched him die, and many saw him after the resurrection. He stayed on Earth for a few days, not as a ghost, but as a man. He ate with his disciples and they felt the wounds on his hands and feet. Later he ascended to Heaven but not by means of death. Ultimately God communicates his word to me. Yes the Bible is a helpful tool, but by reading it and deciphering it on your own is how you found out God's true will for your life. Church is good because it clears up certain things and gives you ideas as to want God is saying in his scriptures. School wouldn't be necessary if we could just pick up a textbook and teach everything to ourselves. The same goes for spirituality. You can't really understand everything in the Bible by only reading it by yourself. You learn through discussion with others. So who communicates history, math, science to you? Your teachers and whatever other research you do on it. The same goes for Christianity. I don't know why you have such a hard time understanding religion but not history class. Both are pretty well documented, and both are communicated in basically the exact same form. If you don't want the free gift of salvation, cool, no sweat off my back. Do me a favor and read the book of Revelations, its not very long, and its very interesting and I promise it will keep your attention. Christians don't want to control your life with rules, they want you to live your life to the fullest for eternity, not just your measely 80 years here on Earth. All of which you won't even remember in 1000 years from now let alone over a trillion.
Hey, I don't hate any of you guys either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just came here to stir up some conversation (I haven't been very active in this forum, so...!). Looks like it worked
There is one underlying reason why I've posted this. There's a bible-thumping woman who calls herself a Jehovah's Witness who has been calling me relentlessly for the last year trying to get me to 'convert' to her way of thinking.
Sorry bitch, ain't gonna happen.
Then there's a "friend" of mine who is a Christian Scientist.. who wants me to give their "cause" money to "join" their way of life.
WTF?
I think it's all a bunch of hogwash. You do NOT use someone else's name (especially when I don't think that name means as much to me as it does to them) to get money out of MY WALLET!
Oh, btw.. I don't believe in this afterlife or 'soul' crap either. You die, you're dead. Thanks for coming. Out of body crap is just science fiction. No one has any proof of the afterlife either.
I believed in Santa Claus as a child, that doesn't mean any of it was true. Now, I just dress up like Santa along with 300 others every Christmas and go on a pub crawl.
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There are good christians and bad christians.
Anyhow, Lenko, my man, you can always preempt them by saying, "sure, let's discuss this over the human sacrifice we're having at the naked bonfire tonight"
that usually gets them to go away
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
"That's what I dislike about anti-religion individuals. They need to see "proof" and they need to KNOW that he exists before they will believe it. No, it's called faith for a reason. If you needed to SEE everything in order to believe it, then how would you get anything done? How would you know Antarctica exists? How would you know Ethiopia is a 3rd world country? Have you been there? Have you seen it yourself? No, but you better bet you believe both exist."
This is what I dislike about religious individuals. The whole point is ANYONE can go to Ethiopia or Antarctica to see it for themselves... The existance of Antarctica and Ethiopia as a 3rd world country are proven FACTS. There are millions of people who have gone there and
seen it for themselves . As for religion, there are just billions of people who believe something that someone claims to have seen however many years ago. Sorry, but I'm not believing in @!#$ until that bush catches on fire and starts talking to me. I'll just go about life living the way I have because I'm a good person regardless of which superhero I believe in.
