Now as most of you know i drive a cavalier. this is not my sunfire but i figure j-bodys a j-body right?
well to the prob, a friend of my wifes drives a sunfire. when the friend was about to leave work she noticed that her car started making a clanking sound, asked the cooks inside where she worked and they all said, push rods. so i thought. fantastic shes going to need a new motor. well turns out she drives the sunfire gt with 2.4 twin cam, no push rods
!
first i was thinking broken cam, pulled valve covers off enough to see the cams, not broken cams. scratched my head for 30seconds then thought, could a exhaust or intake valve be stuck open and the piston beating the hell out of the valve?
so im asking you guys now, could that theory be right and if so, what are we looking at for replacement, if its not bad just valve and spring, if it is bad new head, if its really bad new pistons?
thanks for your help
btw engine is not the stock 2.4 this one came from a junk yard and was thrown in by a shady mechanic (no not me i work in the light) so im not sure on the milage but the car is reading 10700 and the engine looks pretty old
ok, well, a broken cam is very rare, so it was going out on a limb on that one...unless you 2.4 guys have that problem a lot?
do you have a compression gauge? where does the noise sound like its coming from?
Even if it was possible for a valve to stick down like that, the engine wouldnt run long with it.
Are these engines even interference engines.
Without hearing the sound it is impossible to diagnose, but if it sounds to you like its motor related, than easist thing is find a used one to put in.
I've seen bearings in some of the pullies come apart before and you would swear it was a rod knock, until you removed the belt and started it up and see if the noise goes away
- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new
Automatic? Flex plate could have cracked.
Dave
i don't know whats wrong with it. i have yet to take the valve cover completely off but it sounds like its coming from the around rear cam
flex plate indeed it could of snap'ed
ill throw a compression test on it tomorrow
ill also try removing the belt and starting it to see if the noise goes away.
Thanks for the suggestions!
is it like a ticking noise? i need a better explaination of the sound
yeah it goes tictictictictictictic regual idol ticktictictictic regual idol
then you hit the gas and it goes
tictictictictictic just way faster and rocks like crazy
yeah thats what im thinking, ill let you know as soon as i figure out how to take the valve cover off
if its a lifter tick does it go away once warm or no? could be a bad lifter or oil pump might not be building enough pressure
not sure, havn't ran the car long enough with the tic to warm it up.
the girl that drives the car said she had been driving it from one city to another in brod daylight when the noise started. im thinking its a bad lifter because i was looking on other forms. yeah shame on me outsearching
Quote:
ok i gotcha. well we did check it out a little, but we didn't really get into it. that plate that i'm painting i learned is not the valve cover, but some other cover that goes over the valve cover. anyways, we tried to remove the valve cover but couldn't cause we would've had to remove the plate on the side of the engine (i can't remember what it's called) that covers the timing chain and pulleys and @!#$ in order to access 4 bolts that were going into the side of it. so basically we took off the top bolts and learned what we could from that, we we tried to lift up the valve cover the cam shaft came up with it. we eventually put it back down and bolted it back into place and did a pressure check. we went from left to right and they all checked out except the third (middle right), which we consistently got different pressure readings on. that was also the one that we heard the noise coming from when we put a screw driver to the cover on the individual valves and listened to it. so we're pretty sure that i'm gonna need some sort of valve job on this. how much do you think that would run me on average at a shop?
got that from automotiveform.com
kid has the same car a 99 sunfire with 2.4 twin cam,
anyway to check the oil pump with the engine torn apart? turns out this is a bitch of a fix, we've had to take almos tthe entire motor apart to get to the head
deff should of charged more then a case of beer for this fix >.<
Josh Ferry wrote:..................deff should of charged more then a case of beer for this fix >.
Hey, it's how the world works, she's a girl, you're a guy, oh the stupid things guys have done for girls over the centuries!! Just add your name to the bottom of the list!
Dave
dude we made the same mistajke once we thought it was in the cam and well it turned out to be a rod bearing.its a quad its always a rod bearing.but ya check the idler pulley to cause we thought we had a rod bearing go once tunred out it was the bearing in the tensioner pulley
Quote:
dude we made the same mistajke once we thought it was in the cam and well it turned out to be a rod bearing.its a quad its always a rod bearing.but ya check the idler pulley to cause we thought we had a rod bearing go once tunred out it was the bearing in the tensioner pulley
thats going to suck if thats the only thing thats wrong is the tensioner pulley because i've almost got the head off infact 3 bolts to go and its off
the 2.4 is a nightmare to work on >.<
i hate this car i hate his car i hate this car i hate this car
Found out there are a bunch of bolts holding the tranny to the block, and to get to them you need to remove the manifold. then there is a bunch of bolts on the front that gotta go and to remove them you have to take the intake manifold off,
tonight we'll get the engine off and heads off... hopefully
new engine is way easier but i might make a how to if anyone is brave enough to try this again.
Josh Ferry wrote:Found out there are a bunch of bolts holding the tranny to the block, and to get to them you need to remove the manifold. then there is a bunch of bolts on the front that gotta go and to remove them you have to take the intake manifold off,
tonight we'll get the engine off and heads off... hopefully
new engine is way easier but i might make a how to if anyone is brave enough to try this again.
Huh,
I should question your qualifications as a mechanic to be tearing into this but I won't.........
Couple of Questions for you if you will, if not, click on the little X in the upper right hand corner.
Do you have a manual, preferably the factory but even a crappy Chilton's?
What are you after that you've gone to this extent already? Last I heard you didn't know what the noise was, you made a decision?
You've tried the "easy" things first, such as the suggested belt pulley?
Do you know that it is WAY easier to pull the engine and trans as a unit?.....you'd find that info in a book.
And then some advice.
If you HATE working on cars and HATE this car in particular, why the Hell are you tearing this apart? Being angry and tense at a machine isn't going to help you get it done or do a quality job. You are going to break things, take apart things better left undone and in general cost you and your "buddy" a bucket of poorly spent money.
Just my 2cents here, now go ahead and cuss me out.
Dave
haynes yes
valve seating
just because its "easier" to pull the tranny with the engine i rather not make more work for my self
don't hate working on cars, i just hate the fact that GM decided to make you pull the engine to replace the heads, common sense is dead isnt it? (not refering to you, refering to GM)
any more pregress here was it a valve or rod bearing or what i am interested to find out
david keevil wrote:
Do you know that it is WAY easier to pull the engine and trans as a unit?.....you'd find that info in a book.
Not if its automatic...automatic is MUCH easier just jockeying the motor out, I can do the 10 or so book hour job in less than 6.
To the OP, this is classic number three rod bearing going south, any 2.4 with sketchy history on maintenance or miles with a noise like that I either make sure the owner knows whats possibly coming (At least $2500 worth of repairs, plus my labor) or when they want it quick fixed I show them the door and give them a business card of a local tow company. Sooner or later theres going to be a new inspection hole in the side of that block.
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
Alex Richards wrote:david keevil wrote:
Do you know that it is WAY easier to pull the engine and trans as a unit?.....you'd find that info in a book.
Not if its automatic...automatic is MUCH easier just jockeying the motor out, I can do the 10 or so book hour job in less than 6.
To the OP, this is classic number three rod bearing going south, any 2.4 with sketchy history on maintenance or miles with a noise like that I either make sure the owner knows whats possibly coming (At least $2500 worth of repairs, plus my labor) or when they want it quick fixed I show them the door and give them a business card of a local tow company. Sooner or later theres going to be a new inspection hole in the side of that block.
Hmmmm, don't see where he said it was an automatic.
Anyway. Just drop the oil pan and pull some bearing caps, you'll find the problem in a hurry with very little work and it is easy to put the pan back on and tell your buddy to get a tow truck and get it out of here or spend $2500 on a new engine. Then you can adjust your price and no one is angry at you for ripping their car apart and being unable to put it back together as it was....... for a case of beer..... good beer is what ? $25.00?? cheap beer way less. So 10 hours of work to get the block out = $2.50 an hour!
I used to make that working at a Mercedes Dealer back in the early 70's!!!
Dave
well we got the valve cover off... finally, and its not a stuck valve, so after doing more reasearch im starting to think its the 3ed rod bearing like Alex said and seeing if that is the problem
i told my wifes friends dad who is paying for the repairs that hes most likely going to need a new engine and should start searching around, also let him know what a shop would charge to do this job so he offered me 1500 and a new case of bud. yay!
anyone of you guys ever remove the timing chain tensioner?
why do you have to take that off to take the basepan or motor out
