So 2014 just continues to be a total disaster for my 2001 Cavalier (5-speed manual, 2.2, 181K). First it was a leaking radiator that I finally replaced myself a couple of months ago and damn near killed myself doing it dealing with the spring clamps for the hoses - which I never did get back all the way on how they are supposed to be. The very next week - the water pump gave out, and because of what I had just gone through a few days earlier, I physically could not do that job so soon after and had to go pay out the butt to have some place do it which I sure hated.

Well ever since the radiator replacement - during which I had a HELL of a time getting the cooling fan assembly past the starter, and must have pounded on the starter by accident with the fan trying to get it past it back down from the top - the car has had starting issues. So I figured I damaged the starter. But over the past couple of months, the clutch has been acting all fubar and it won't fully get in gear 100% (especially 3rd and 4th) until after shifting is over and the clutch pedal has been long-since released.

I thought they were two unrelated problems, but I dunno anymore.

Here is what happens with the starting: about 50% of the time, the car starts normally and fine (this has dropped steadily from around 80% when I first noticed the issue a few months ago right after the whole radiator fiasco). The other 50%, I turn the key and it makes some horrible loud scraping type noise and/or a bang and either starts or fails to start. But here is the odd thing - when I have the starting problem, about half of the time the cooling fan comes on and stays on when it is not supposed to be on at all. This model only runs the fan (assuming the engine is cool) if you turn the AC compressor on and that has not been the case with this weird new issue.

So I was just trying to wait as long as I could to see how much more life I could get out of the starter - which seems to be around a $130 part and from what I can tell is a do-it-yourself job - to now being worried it might be some kind of death spiral associated with the whole clutch/flywheel and unrelated to the starter.

So I am hoping to find someone to who this all sounds familiar and/or who has some ideas. To say I am poor and unemployed would be an understatement so I can't afford to do practically anything, let alone get involved with some enormous labor-intensive rip off nightmare which is what I am starting to fear. I'm certain that I wouldn't be able to replace the clutch myself so I am afraid to even ask how much that job might cost.

Thanks for any help.

DJ, Raleigh

Well you are half right on the activation of the radiator fan. It does come on with the AC, but it comes on (well, it's supposed to) when the coolant reaches ~195*. Is the temp gauge working properly?

The starter could be a couple things depending on the specific noise considering the circumstances. First thing I would do is try and trace out all the places the motor/harness grounds. You could have jarred a ground connection loose and that could definitely cause starting issues. If the ground is loose the solenoid and starter motor could be pulsing on/off and causing the bendix gear to pull engage/disengage causing your grinding noise. A loose ground could also cause the radiator fan to malfunction, loose grounds can do screwy things.

Had a new starter put in this morning after having the worst failure-to-start event yet while already out and not at home. Had hoped to make it a little longer but no such luck. Another $400 down the bottomless pit.

Now the clutch moves up to the number one spot on the long list of things wrong that would all be fixed in a perfect money-is-no-object world.

My question now is: Can you guys verify that replacing the clutch, flywheel, rear seal, etc.... is NOT a do-it-yourself job? After being raped for easy jobs that I was planning on doing myself - like the water pump and starter - but ended up taking to some repair shop for in the end, I am sure that I'll be doing the same for the clutch.

So far, I have rough estimates ranging from $1200 to $1400. Does anyone have experience with having this done anywhere and if so - what did you pay and what is a fair range for this 2001 Cavalier manual 2.2 base?

Thanks thanks thanks (echos as I look down into the bottomless money-eating abyss)...

Let me try it this way.

How many of you have had to have your clutch replaced ? If you did, how many miles were you at when you had it done? And how much did it cost? Trying to get as much info as I can before the thing doesn\\\'t move anymore since the slipping is getting worse every day.

Thanks.

2001 Cavalier Base 5-speed manual 181,400 miles. Original clutch

Definition of diy-able is relative

I could build a car from scratch in my garage and call it easy.

A clutch isn\'t terrible if you have the tools to do it and are somewhat mechanically inclined.

Cutting the subframe ear so you can get the trans out without pulling the motor makes the job pretty simple. First time I did a trans pull it took me like 6 hours alone with just one floor Jack abd 2 jack stands. Now I can get it down and back up in less than 2 probably.

A clutch is about $250 and flywheel is about $50 give or take. So $1000 isn\'t outrageous for the work. Heck I have a lightly used one laying around you could have cheap. It was only slipping in 4th at real high horsepower (something a stock car wouldn\'t have to worry about lol).

After about 15-20k turbo miles the stock clutch atarted to give out on me like 3 years ago at 140k. This was with boost and the previous owner was inept at driving a manual trans car. It would still drive normal but under power it would slip.




\"A car just isn\'t a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers.\" -- Shadowfire

If you were struggling with a radiator and starter replacement I would recommend you stay away from a DIY clutch and flywheel. This is a much more labor intensive task. You will have to completely remove the transmission to gain access to the flywheel bolts. This will include removing the battery, air box, struts, hubs, tie rods, axels, and dropping the cradle. You think spring clamps are a pain? I\'m not saying it cant be done but know your limitations.

Replacing a cluctch is not an easy job. Not saying it is outside of the realm of DIY but as said above if a radiator and coolent hose clamps gave you a hard time your in for a bad time doing a clutch.
However for the shifting problem you are discribing I\'m not sold on it being the clutch and you might want to rule out shift linkages and master and slave cylinder before you resort to replacing the clutch. Hell it could be the throw out bearing even. Now my level of trans experience isn\'t as high as it is in other levels (haven\'t ever had to mess with them) but someone else could chime in here on this.

So I\'ve got a bunch of estimates for the clutch and they all came in around $1200 and 2-days. That\'s awesome since I have already gone through:

$300 for the check-engine-light p0440 diagnosis to find out it would cost another $700 to replace the PCM (not done)
$200 for the radiator and hoses
$300 for the water pump
$400 for the starter

Took the car out on the interstate last night and this morning, and in addition to those times when the clutch definitely slips (worst when it is in higher gears 3, 4, and 5 and I give it gas to try and accelerate) - it is also just plain and simple REALLY lacking power and just not able to speed-up at all like it has always done. In fact, when there is even a slight uphill climb (and we are talking barely noticeable incline), it will slow down if I keep in in 5th or 4th without downshifting to a lower gear than it should require. So besides the clutch, there is something else going on. I\'m going to have the codes read, because the CEL is always on due to the p0440 which is always present. But assuming there is no new code, what are the likely culprits for this non-clutch issue? EGR? Fuel filter/pump? Valve problem of some sort?

Oh, by the way - just out of curiosity, those of you who drive manual transmission cars - when and what have you ever had done to your transmission as far as basic maintenance?

Thanks. I need to start looking for a cardboard box to live in now.

The only thing I have done Trans wise is when I got my car 5 years ago I replaced the fluid and overfilled slightly (to combat the getrag growl) since I replace fluid every year. Clutch and clutch fluid for all I know are still factory.

Basic maintenance when the car was stock was just to leave it alone lol. 120k on it and it was showing no signs of needing anything.

Lack of power when youre trying to accelerate in high gear could be a lot of things. Could be weak ignition; exhaust blockage; bad air filter

2001 doesnt have EGR.

Fuel pump/filter could be an issue too. Lots of things are possible but without a code or seeing the car in person its hard to say.




\"A car just isn\'t a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers.\" -- Shadowfire

Dean Johnson wrote:$300 for the check-engine-light p0440 diagnosis to find out it would cost another $700 to replace the PCM (not done).

Hate to break it to you but p0440 is not a pcm issue. Its a common evap leak issue. Any compentant shop with a scan tool and a smoke machine can fix that for you probably way less then that unless its the charcoal canister. I would go to a new shop for diagnostics.







On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.

Rob Dotterer wrote:

Dean Johnson wrote:$300 for the check-engine-light p0440 diagnosis to find out it would cost another $700 to replace the PCM (not done).

Hate to break it to you but p0440 is not a pcm issue. Its a common evap leak issue. Any compentant shop with a scan tool and a smoke machine can fix that for you probably way less then that unless its the charcoal canister. I would go to a new shop for diagnostics.

Yeah, before I got to the point where I could write a book - a THICK book - on this problem, that is what I thought too. If the PCM is faulty and decides to turn on the CEL and throw a p0440 when there is no leak in the EVAP system - (there wasn't with the old parts, and there isn't with all-new parts either - and having wasted all that time, effort and money), then it is the PCM.

But I digress. Back to the current problem.....going from most likely to least likely - what would be the list of things that would cause a relatively sudden lack of any power when trying to accelerate in the higher gears. If this happens when there are also signs of a slipping clutch *BUT* it does not happen at the same time as the clutch slips, could it still be clutch-related? The thing that pisses me off is that it sure is a coincidence that the starting problem started right after I drove out of the repair shop that installed the new water pump. And now this new problem started right after the same repair shop put in the new starter. Call me paranoid but if I didn't know better......

I think you're going about this problem the wrong way

Are you planning on keeping the car for a while?

If you are; you know already that you need to replace the clutch anyway so start there.

After the clutch is fixed; see if your lack of power still is a problem. If it is, there isnt much to the car at all that would need to be looked at to find the problem.

I listed a few things that could be the issue and you asked the same question again.

If you arent going to keep the car; youre better off trading it on something else and forgetting about the problems. (with all the money you have in repair bills you could have something decent and paid a few months of payments on it already)

Whatever you do; STOP taking it to the shop(s) you've been going to.



"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire

Thanks for the input, Matt.

After spending a while searching online, it sounds like a clogged fuel filter is the most likely explanation for the non-clutch symptoms I am having.

I just read a long thread on here about changing the fuel filter - which I will have to do without raising the vehicle and just crawling underneath of it. I've been under there a lot thanks to the whole EVAP / purge & vent valve fiasco when I thought that was the source of the p0440 problem. But I have never changed the fuel filter. I am not eager to get covered with gas, but I sure don't want to take it to some place and spend $150 or however much they'd charge to put on a six dollar part.

*ugh*

Pull the fuel pump relay start the car and it will run all the fuel in the lines out. The filter will leak a lot less fuel on you. Replace the filter, insert the relay and prime the system a few times.

Had the codes read. I should have thought of this sooner, but of course with the CEL always already on, it doesn't just turn on when there is a new problem.

Got (in addition to the always-present -p0440) - a P0336 crankshaft position sensor error.

So......now things get even more complicated than they already were which I didn't think was possible. At first I figured the whole starter's slow-death spiral and associated difficulty in starting had set the p0336 code and that it was just still there now that the new starter is in place and hasn't failed to start since it was installed. (disconnecting the battery cables on my car does not reset the CEL, by the way).

But then I tried to find out what the symptoms I have been suffering from (terrible acceleration especially at low RPMs and higher gears like when I am on the interstate) - and figured I just needed a new fuel filter. But could a faulty crankshaft position sensor cause the same symptoms?

The car had not stalled once, always starts (with the new starter) and seems to idle just fine. And my last week's worth of gas mileage is the same as it has been for years so that isn't impacted either.

What a cluster. With my luck I will probably spend a fortune to replace everything and it still won't fix the issue. Oh, and the clutch slipping? It sure would be nice to find out a faulty sensor is responsible for that too, but with a manual - I don't see that happening.

*ugh*