Hi I am newer to the site. I just bought my first j-body. I LOVE IT. There is some problems with it, but I am buying a spare motor,(probably since i got it for $400 dollars) since the original is gonna die soon. Here is my problem. I love my little ln2 thats in the car. I don't want to switch from that motor. but I have read alot of post about the possibilities it has. I just don't have the experience with pushrod tech. So here I ask you. What should I do, what parts should I buy. I am looking to make a sick ln2. All we have here in town is three eco's I wanna show them that pushrods are still around.

So if you have any suggestions or comments lets here them.

If you're lucky enough to have a spare motor then port and polish the head and a cam regrind will work wonders. Crane cams went under, but try to contact a fellow by the name of Madjack for other recommendations for places for regrinds and the grind itself.

comp cams can still do them, and go check some local shops around you, you would definitely be surprised as to what some of the places can do. I know I have been so far. getting a lot of stuff done at local places out here.

for bolt ons i would start with this

low temp thermostat - ac-delco get one for a 95 2.3 its the same size as our ln2 (195*) and its a premium grade 180* (low temp) $25 u can get a custom 160* but unless your circle track racer u dont need this and if u live in canada dont instal this also get watter wetter $11 and run your ratio of coolant 35% to watter 70% in the summer in winter it should be 60-40

gauges - to save money find an equus tach and tripple gauge set
the tach is $80 and hooks up to a plug wire (go off #4 plug right after the boot attached to the plug) the tripple gauge set includes water temp,volts,oil press $55 and there mechanical @ napa
the water temp instals into the ect sensor on the right side of the head (upper coolant intake)
unscrew the sensor and screw in the gauge sensor use teflon tape
the oil press is on the back side of the block find the ignition coils to the right youl see (if your under the car) 2 sensors
#1 is oil pressure(on the left) #2 is knock sensor (knock sensor is one wire) 1 1/16 deep socket will remove it and instal the new line (full instrustions and all hardware is included) if u use the shifter cables rubber conector going through the firwall on the passenger side u itl be the shortest distance to the dash do not over tighten the compresion fitting going into the block or it will break off then youl have to find a retractor bit to remove that from the block
at normal operating temp 180* @ 900 rpm the pressure should be at 15psi min & max 54psi @ 3000rpm on stock internals (all ln2 internals) if your below 15psi that meens its time to rebuild

engine & tranny mounts - minus shipping costs these will cost you $100 at ttr or summit
unless your a full time auto-x or cirlce track car the upper insert and lower dog bone will suffice $50 rk sport
the tranny mounts $50 get prothane's - ttr's tranny bushings look like someone just poured urethane into a mold and didnt bother to vibrate the air bubbles out of them when they were setting i am not pleased with the quality of them where as my prothanes wich were 20 bucks cheaper are a much better quality and there isnt air bubbles everywhere on the faces
if u have a vice put grease on the outer dia of the mounts and press em in if not grab a hammer and beat em in but go slow until the lip of the mount is in the shell the tranny mounts are also a mother f***ing b**ch to get in
in canada new mounts cost $160 in shiping

ignition - plugs ac-delce platinums will cost $16 each but worth every penny gap them .50 less than stock spec DONT INDEX YOUR PLUGS this over tightens them and could be bad for your head remember there aluminum not iron 4 hp is not worth the cost of a new head
wires ac-delce standard plus 8mm plug wires $67 and these are the best thing u can put under the hood of your cavy unless you wanna spend over $150 on custom 10mm taylors
coils - accel makes hei coils available through summit for $40 not including shipping

ground kit $40 - go to a stereo shop and get a bunch of 4 gauge power wire 99% copper and connertors copper available at stereo shop
run a ground from the battery - the body 1@ passenger sturt tower and battery tray then go to the tranny then block then head then intake and finally plenum and from the plenum go to the passenger side of the body and ground off close to the pcm this has been proven to add 5whp
they sell these kits for $150

exhaust - pace setter makes 4-1 headers $200 includes collector up to cat use a new gm gasket $30 the pace setter ones leak if u want to use a cat magnaflow is the way to go $80 but worth it
as for the cat back go to a wrecker yard with a hack saw and $50 look under trucks dodge's usually have 2.5" and take home one
and fab up your own, then find a cheap fart can these sell for $100 up to $400 available at alot of auto parts stores or cherry bomb glass packs sell for $35 then throw on a tip $20 the pace setter monza catbak $275 @ summit

intakes - cai rk sport $156
wai rk sport $174
6" length of aluminum pipe or exhaust pipe the dia of your intake and ractive cone filter $25 canadian tire k&n $60 use the stock rubber tube make a bracket so that itl attach to where the o clamp goes on the cone filter and that its long enough so you can bolt it to the front engine lift bracket this is on the far right side of the head on the last head stud

for the throttle body look inside youl see a lip or ridge take the dremel with a stone and grind it down till its almost all gone u should still see some of the lip then use sandpaper rolls to finish use 80 then 160 then 320 finally hit it with a 120 or finer flap wheel to smooth it out use a hefty amount of wd-40 and use light pressure to do this
then take the butter fly and look at the edges use the sandpaper rolls 320 and lighty go around the edges doing this is called knife edgeing keep the same od of the plate
do not cut into the part where the plate attach to the shaft inside the throttle body and only go a 1/4" knife edge on the plate
once u reatach the plate hold it open and shave of the ends of the screws that are sticking out past the iner shaft be very careful not to go anywhere neer the iac or where the butterfly touches the walls of the tb as this will cause idle isues

flywheels & cluthces - take in your factory flywheel and have it machined down to the lowest tolerance posible this will take off alot of weight it wont be as light as a aluminum one but will only cost you $50 - $100 instead of $350 for a basic fidanza and even when machined down steel will always be stronger than aluminum and aluminum flywheels have busted apart and when that happens it just cost u a new tranny.
zoom mu series clutches are a good upgrade for $225 @ summit and will be more than enough
can go one step up and get dual friction clutch but aluminum flywheel is needed with this and in some cases it can create to much of a static load for the crank
but your factory clutch can take a friggen retarted amount of abuse before itl let go pretty much as long as the clutch pedal is @ floor before your shift u shouldnt be neededing to replace these
but if u hit over 150whp i would recomending upgradeing

underdrive pulleys - auto specialties $115 @summit 25% underdrive but does not include belt the belt to go with this is @ summit for $30

this so far is cheap and reputable parts and still be efficient enough to work and make some hp this will run around $1200 with upgraded clutch $1500 and this is if u do all the work yourself
this is basic budget for these bolt ons the clutch alone @ a shop is $900 or more in labour
tb honeing in labour $100 and thats only 2 things exhaust rates will run $100 - $150 an hour in a good shop but pick up a mig welder and practice and remember something alot of the times u pay for the name on the product and 60% of the time u get what u pay for and ive also writen them up in pretty much the order they should be done to you car

P&P cyl head - with this dont touch the exhaust vains and use sand paper rolls theres not much science to this but take it easy go talk to people that have done this before and research the web on writeups on this i could go on for hours about what not to and to do but mainly debur and smooth out the runners u want the exhaust runners mirror finish and the int smooth not polished
on this u will spend 2 hours per int runner 1 hour per exhaust with this youl either gain hp or u will loose alot u could spend 4 grand in bolt ons and end up no faster than a stock ln2 because u wrecked the head like i said if u truley want to do this dont listen to me or anyone on the net that isnt reputable go talk to someone in person about this any machine shop will help you out AND DONT TOUCH THE EXHAUST VAINS if u do anything more than polish em ul kill your head
i lost 20km's in my top speed in the 1/4 mile because i did this wrong on my first try and i now i have a very expensive paper weight

front & rear suspension - for the rear grab steel plating and box off the bottom of the triangle cross beam this will add alot more strentgh and flex resistance

if you type in darkstar crossmember in google search youl see a bunch of info on it jdmuniverse.com is one place topendmotorsports.com look in suspension/braces/darkstar
and if u can get ahold of HCI (lords of import mag) volume 5 number 9 september 2004
they did a write up and an install of it
the braces that bolt onto the civic control arms make em out of steel and mig weld em to the control arms or run the end link to the sway bar end link (bushings)it work as good as goin infront of the control arm and involves no welding
depending where u look and what kind these cost 300 - 500 to buy
when they can be made for 40 bucks like mine did and they take about 2 days to make
i built mine for the cost of rod ends wich was 40 bucks from a speed shop in town but summit has em and extra jam nuts for that
but dont use turnbuckles mine snaped the first week they were on the car ( if they break youl hear em youl think u blew a cv)
beside the rad the tower support that connect to the lower rad support through there theres a 3/8 hole going through the upper brace
look behind the pcm and the other is behind the win washer reserve (i took my washer reserve completely out to go on the outside of the supports)
i used 1" square tubing for the control arm links and 2" round pipe for the crossmember brace itself and 1/8 to 1/4" depending on the quality of metal u get, for the end plates to tie into the control arms and pivot arms for the end links and beside the rad (when u look at the darkstar crossmember youl know what i meen)
i used 3/8 rod ends and 3/8 nuts and bolts to hold everything together
my cavy dont wheel hop when i launch at 4 grand
before this my dash looked like it was gonna fall off
other than the rod ends go to metal scrap yard and look around the tubing and pipe could be free

as for the engine i would look into this for a rebuild

eagle rods $300 - speed pro hyperetic pistons w/t duroshield for a 98 2200 $30 each - upgrade to premium rings -
clevite main & rod bearings $150 - melling timeing kit $160 - melling m98hv oil pump $90 - to save money keep the factory cam and instal harland sharp 1.65 roller rockers $19.50 each part # 1003-1 this will give you .475 valve lift - manley push rods $120 part # 25848 - 8 - polly locks from harland - $12 for 4 - lifter spring swap summit has trick flow .842 bodied lifters for $8 a piece - si valves $10 each - comp cams bee hive springs $120 1.4 od w/t 1.7 instaled hieght use factory retainers & locks

but this aint cheap there alot of added cost to this mainly balancing the crank and rods as 1 thing that needs to be done
for an alternative as what im doing is im getting a 2200 out of a 00 cavy that was rolled its got 43,000 kms on the engine and im useing all the internals except for crank and push rod guides and putting them into my 95 ln2 for $350 in total on my 3rd rebuild im only spending around 2 grand in total
if i was to go everything aftermarket i dont have a total price but my valvetrain w/t cam would be over a grand
with just bolt ons that ive listed here and a ported head with custom valve spring swap from a 305 im running @ just under 90mph in the 1/4 (i measured out .4 kms with my car on a stretch of highway) with good year blizacks on 14" alloys
i will hit 14 secs for under 3 grand with my ln2 with a little help from nos anything is posible and if it blows up well then i just have something else to do on weekends.


if it start the next day it can be driven harder

where the @!#$ do you get your info? you're more likely to break something with what you're doing.


P.S. the Delco plugs in the LN2, are not the greatest. the NGK Iridium plugs are some of the best going, same with the wires, go with the Accel 8.8MM wires that you can get as a universal set from CT. Accel #8032.

are you serious about the P&P thing? you WANT to do more to the Exhaust side, there is virtually NO flow with these heads, you have to open it up a little bit. if you take it to a proper shop who has diagrams and KNOWS what they're doing, you will NOT have that problem. oh, and with the intake side, you do NOT want it smooth, that's just asking for even bigger problems as the air doesn't mix with the fuel and vice-verse.

underdrive pulley's are useless if you can get some of MD's lightweight pulleys. as is that Ground kit thing, you will NOT ever gain any power by upgrading the ground wires. that's only for the electrical for stereo system. there is no physical way of gaining power.

dude, sorry to say. but that build just sounds like butthole. Not to try to say anything bad about it. I just want to go forced Induction.. Yea. So if any of you sc or turbo guys have a great build lets hear it.

Ps. I would love to push over three hundred. But I am in no hurry. This is just gonna be a project on a spare block. only for when my oem motor poops out.

Im sure you can get 300, without THAT much work.

For the time being, Ill only be running a forged/built bottom end (eagle rods, wiesco pistons, m98 oil pump, clevitte bearings etc), a ported head (exhaust porting only), custom turbo grind cam (i can get the specs later PM me), 1.6:1 roller rockers, SS valves, Cometic MLS headgasket, 56mm TB. Thats it as far as the motor is concerned. Ill have the turbo, FMIC, exhaust as well and tuning. Methanol Injection if it needs it (probably just to be safe Ill use it, lol its my DD).


I think this motor with that setup can do 300whp. Im building it to within what I can afford for now. Heck if it doesnt make my 300, Ill just keep working on it till it does.


"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire

matt your gonna be held up the most on your tb, 56 is tiny to produce 300hp, maybe something can be fabbed to be closer to 70 mm or so? i think that is the only place you will be choked up at

Right now I already have the 56mm 2.3 TB. If its not expensive to get a stocker or this 56mm one ported I will.

Right now Im just concentrating on getting the motor put together, and running before going crazy with the hp. I am going to run it probably at less than 250 for a while just to ensure that it wont blow apart on me when im driving it around. I will eventually do a valvespring upgrade, and larger TB, and a few other goodies, but for now, I just wanna get it put together. I am tired of waiting on having a boosted motor! What I have already should be sufficient to make the car a bit more fun




"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire

So pretty much. this is my take on a good build.

is do the sbc rockers swap. with a 1.6 ratio
forged pistons.
30 over. SLEEVES???? I have no clue??

Polished and knife edged crank.
Ported intake, ported and polished exhaust.
1mm over sized valves.

cam regrind.......I have no clue on how to tell them what i need it ground to.

dis kit. plug wires.
run my plugs a stage colder.


Anything else anyone would want to add
that is a nessecity for big hp

basically get teh motor built on paper and what you plan on doing with it and tell a reputable cam company and they will grind you the best cam they can. no sleeves needed, dont even need to bore it if you dont want to. knife edge crank isnt necessary not gonna give you much for the cost of itjust make sure everything is balanced nicely and use good quality parts

so thats it. no crazyy @ss builds. I have the tools and everything and the time. JUST HELP ME.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Crazy ass builds take time and research, I have well over two years in design and fabrication (not to mention the redesign and fabrication) of my setup.

If you want an answer to a specific question ask it. If you just want to bother us with "How do I build a sik moter dude?!!?!" noone worth their salt is going to spend there time answering you.

We have already proven that the LN2 can support 300+ on stock internals at least for awhile. The main weak points are the pistons and rods. Opening up the head a little and doing a full quality rebuild can net you a strong motor that should satisfy your needs. The valvetrain is an issue but if you read the 2200 valvespring and rocker arm threads you should be able to get something moderate that will suffice.


Other than that, you need to start getting specifc and learning, not just asking generalized questions on how to build a project that could take you two or three years.



Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

Why would anybody waste there time and money on this engine....



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

lol!

,,,i just hate that alot of aftermarket companies have given up on it.

Agreed. Spend couple thousand to get it to where a stock eco is...or buy a cheap used eco.

Pfftt, Shane you don't even relise what your agreeing to! It only takes a couple hundred to make that. Just look what Bob Guptill does all the time with just parts sitting around the shop!
The dump on the LN2 band wagon has already passed and you missed the Short Bus!

BTW: The motor in ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000'c cavi that makes 372.06 whp / 376.88wtq is a 2200!

ok. Sorry the little kid in me is a moron.

And that little kid is me.

I found a patriot race head for a s10.
It says it will work for my Cavy.
Since its the same motor. DUh?!

So my question is has anyone dealt with this company and or products?
Is it worth it.

Patriot has a decent reputation with the local racers in my area. Their valve train my not be but basically stock in many situations, but their heads usually flow decent. Their pricing is about average for what your getting.

You can get you own 1mm oversized valves and talk with them, they can probably machine the seats for the bigger valves.

Shane Reid wrote:Agreed. Spend couple thousand to get it to where a stock eco is...or buy a cheap used eco.

within my first $1000 i was already keeping up to eco's now im beating em after $1200 in parts
and after i invest another $1500 ill be beating the new turbo'd eco's n/a - and i paid 3 grand for my cavy when i bought it

i highly doubt an eco swap can be done for $1200 the basic ln2 sells for $500 w/t trans

and if u actually look into it, its way cheaper to do up a ln2 than a eco as an everyday street&strip car




if it start the next day it can be driven harder

MadJack wrote:Patriot has a decent reputation with the local racers in my area. Their valve train my not be but basically stock in many situations, but their heads usually flow decent. Their pricing is about average for what your getting.

You can get you own 1mm oversized valves and talk with them, they can probably machine the seats for the bigger valves.

Really? I've heard only heard fail's called on Patriot stuff, namely complaints about poor porting that's no-better or worse than stock. But, if you say so....


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

I've never heard much from people running Patriot stuff on LN2's only eco's on here and majority of the people are happy. If your going to do the SBC rocker swap they need to be narrow body rockers and you will need to swap out the studs to run them. Your not going to need a sick build as ohv's are simple...rods, pistons, port the head, and a quality turbo setup should be all you need to hit 300hp.

But don't forget fuel, as your going to want to look into a fuel pump, and make sure you get a sold tune. I would recomend
Cavattack2200 as he owns 2 turbo LN2's and is very knowlegable on tuning j bodies. I've got parts laying around still that I never used on my ohv build as i sold the car. If you want a nice Stainless steel header,T3/T4 57trim turbo , scrankscraper/ windage tray assembly or rocker studs send me a pm and I'll make you a hell of a deal i got them sitting in my closet collecting dust, my other parts ended up on Cavattack2200's cars and were parted a while back.

for our top end in our cars, mind we are not allowed roller rockers we run a sbc stud or the screw in 4.3 v6 stud if you like witht he stocker rocker arm and a mercruiser 3.0 rocker ball pivot. we run a sbc spring and stock ln2 retainer

So I had a quote for a p&p job from a local shop that is very reputable.
and they quoted about $450

I thought this was nuts.

Anyone know of anyone that can do it, knows a shop that does outta state jobs that are shipped

or anything like that

i can do it but would also charge $450,