what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness - Performance Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:58 AM
i'll do my best to check back on this thread, but i just dont seem to find my self on these forums as much as i used to before.


4-5 months ago.
i got looking into the idea of doing a new cam swap. Triflow cams. they dont exist for the LD9, hence the new swap. i contacted Geoff of Colt Cams to do the work out in BC. great guy to deal with by the way.

i gathered info, parts and pricing. bought a whole spare head off of Matt (nota24) so i would have cams to send out for regrinding and still have a car to drive in the mean time. then i ran into a realization... why am i sinking all this money into a car thats only worth maybe $1000? seriously, it was going to cost me the value or more of the car itself to do this little project.

this has nothing to do with Geoff by the way. i mean it when i say hes a great guy to deal with, i just came to the realization that i cant put that kind of money into my car.

so, i cut my losses. time passed. i put the head up for sale with no takers.

so, a couple of weeks ago i was talking with shane (autogod, innovativetuning@rogers.com). he got an idea stuck in my head. i went straight to work doing some research. some measuring and comapring later, shanes idea looks like it would work.

now, the idea was this: if its the exhaust cam of the LD9 that seems to be so deficient in comparison to the intake cam, then lets swap it out. been done before right? people have swaped in secret exhaust cams only and left the stock LD9 intake cam alone. though this is true and similar to the idea we had, what we did was very different. as far as i can tell, its the first time a swap like this has been done to an LD9.

the research begain with comparing 2 cams:
the stock LD9 exhaust cam and the stock LD9 intake cam...

let me explain my findings

both intake and exhaust cams have the same journal bearing dimensions. really, it looks like both cams are cut from the same blank. the difference seems to be that the cams are about 90* apart from each other.

so we decided to go for it. we have dubbed this swap the slappy cam swap. why? when i used to work with shane, slappy was one of my many nick names. also, it sounded like something you would find on a bad porn site which gave us a bit of a laugh.

so here is the collection of things that were changed in this swap and their costs.

- LD9 intake cam---------------------------------$50 (whole spar head)
- Tensioner (installed a 96 one piece)----$55 (a 2 piece tensioner was $70)
- oil----------------------------------------------------$9 for 5L of Quaker State at Wal-Mart
- filter--------------------------------------------------$6 Fram from Wal-Mart

thats it.

whole swap cost me $120 and really, the tensioner was optional.



heres the fun part. actually swapping the cam.

the hard part wasnt the cam swap really. the cam gears, buckets, everything are all the same.

we started sunday at about 11:00 am

we tore the motor apart the necessary way. mount out, crank pulley and timing cover off, exhaust cam cam cover pulled off... we slid out the old exhaust cam and in went the slappy cam. we timed the slappy cam to the intake cam and.... *&^*&^%*&%!!!!!elevN!1!!

we lost the timing... the chain came off the crank. for the next few hours we tried to retime the motor. we fought with it for a LONG TIME. we thought we had it. bolted it up, filled her with oil, and turned the key. and turned the key.... we eventually got it to start, but it ran like ass. we hooked it up to HPT to log, and it should that MAP was WAYYY low... bad overlap of the cams, timing was wrong.

at this point it was 8pm. it was either try it again or swap back in the stock exhaust cam. so we do what any frustrated people would do, curse alot and try it again.

this time we had the motor torn apart in 30 minutes. we put the stock exhuast cam back in so we could retime the motor and gain OE timing again.

this time we made damn sure we wouldnt lose timing. we zip tied the chain to everything and wedge a bolt in between the chain can the crank, the zip tied the bolt to the crank shaft so it wouldnt move.

with timing being held in place, we dropped the slappy cam in it again. we timed it again, this time using an even more accurate way than the first time. we attached the cam gear sprocket, fitted the chain to the gears, placed the tensioner and shoes. we bolted it up again...

turned the key...

fired up first try

its been a few days now, and although i havent really pushed it, the car feels good. huge improvement over stock? maybe not yet. we still have to retune and its now going to be in need of a header.

so whats the point of this swap?

its cheap. i had a spare head laying around that i couldnt get rid of. so, with a little ingenuity and team work, we invented a new cam swap. i dont expect this swap to be met with the warmest reception, especially since theres no proof of gains right now.

but if you look at the differences between the LD9 intake cam and the secret cam swap exhaust cam (90-94 LO exhaust) theres not a huge difference. this cam swap should be something people might want to consider if they happen to have a spare head or LD9 laying around.

the swap itself wasnt that hard, timing it was the hard part. we came up with a great way to time it, but that info might remain a trade secret.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:25 AM
Wow! I've never seen LD9 cams in person, but sweet find!! It sounds like it's so obvious it would have slapped somone in the face a long time ago (no pun intended )



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:05 AM
lol yeah it seems like with the introduction of the secret cam swap and the knowledge of how to make HO cams work that no one ever seemed to think of it.

im not saying that something like this should be done in favour of either of those swaps, but its another option. this is a swap thats beneficial to people who have had to drop in new LD9's because they blew one up or have had to swap a head out... you've already got the parts you need then, just need to drop them in and time it properly.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:39 AM
pretty sweet idea. not a big number gain on paper but if timing is correct it should yield a few ponies w/ a good tune.

ive toyed w/. the idea of being able to swap em before but ever thought of actually doing it. so good for you.









Familiar Taste of Poison.
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:49 AM
thanks, would be nice to get a dyno in with the cams and retune as the only upgrade since my last one. it would be nice to substantiate the results of the cam alone, but time and money are a factor of course. worse comes to worse, it will get dynoed next spring and there will also be a header in place, which should wake the cam up even more.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:09 AM
I do not understand the using zip ties to hold the timing.



FU Tuning



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:40 AM
if you time the cams after this swap to where the marks are on the crank and holes for the dowel pins on the cam gears, it would align both the stock intake cam and the slappy cam so the lobes would be acting on the lifters at the same time... you need to time the slappy cam 90* off of the stock intake cam.

you basically have a few options to do that, one of which being timing the slappy cam by hand. the way we timed it by hand, the crank and the stock intake cam were not in they're lockable and marked positions, so we zip tied the chain so the timing would skip again.

when we did this the first time and screwed up, the slappy cam was only about 50-60* off the intake... we didnt want to have to tear it apart again so we made sure the timing stayed in place.

the other option is to drill the cam gear for the new locking position, but we didnt have to as the timing pretty much fell into place.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:30 AM
or drill for a new dowel pin location on the cam itself 90* off.



Familiar Taste of Poison.
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:39 AM
z yaaaa wrote:or drill for a new dowel pin location on the cam itself 90* off.

yeah....what brad said....



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:40 AM
z yaaaa wrote:or drill for a new dowel pin location on the cam itself 90* off.


whitegoose wrote:the other option is to drill the cam gear for the new locking position, but we didnt have to as the timing pretty much fell into place.


thats what i said lol. like i said, drilling the position wasnt needed as the timing fell perfectly into place. with the way we timed the cams, it would take longer to drill out the new lock pin hole.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:00 PM
you said cam GEAR..



Familiar Taste of Poison.

Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:50 PM
i stand corrected, but that seems like alot more work than its worth... especially if some one botches it.

personally, i would just rather time it by hand to be honest with you.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:36 PM
lol id rather slap LG0 cams in to be honest with YOU.





Familiar Taste of Poison.
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:44 PM
z yaaaa wrote:lol id rather slap LG0 cams in to be honest with YOU.



Once again...what brad said...lol.



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:04 PM
you guys are missing the point. this isnt a cam swap i went out purposely to collect like LGO or the secret cam swap. this is a swap i happened to have the parts for already.

we all know that when it comes to cams in the LD9, the stock exhaust cam is the defunct one here. by taking a spare head i bought for a completely different purpose that i couldnt use anymore, i was able to replace the weaker of the two cams.

like i said, this isnt meant to exactly be a swap you go out and purposly collect parts for (until i can back up the swap with numbers at least lol). its meant to be a mild performance upgrade for those that might have a spare head laying around or blew a motor and have a whole LD9 thats only other purpose is as a bought anchor.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:17 PM
Rob it is a good idea but you have to remember the org is different then JCO. unless its big numbers someone will comment on what the point was JCO doesn't have that because most people on there buy intake and a muffle and lowering springs and call it done. the org is filled with people that try these things and since the secret cam swap exhaust cam is closer to the intake cam spects or is it 375??? that would be the easier thing to do as there easy to find and same amount of work to change minus the 90 degree thing

now if you discovered 2.0L cobalt SS cams fit in a 2.4 then people would be less likly to make a comment



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:16 PM
y do you say spare head? its spare cam.





Familiar Taste of Poison.
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:00 PM
accually he bought a head off me it came complete it was off my 2.4 that was in my car before my swap then he used the cam so far out of it but yeah the titles a little missleading cause he didn't use the spare head for anything just used a component off it



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:10 PM
yes, i did just use the one cam, not the whole head.

now i remember why i dont spend as much time on the org anymore. the informaion is here, do with it what you want.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:23 AM
I think its a neat idea. It probably gives you a bit more power without shifting the powerband like the secret cams.



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:07 AM
update:

took video of the car in action. some in car video footage for your enjoyment.




http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/slappy_85/?action=view¤t=MOV05407.flv

http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/slappy_85/?action=view¤t=MOV05408.flv



little bit of dirving impressions after these past 2 or so months...

honestly, she loves the upper RPMS now. the car actually pulls up there, rather than just winding out the rest of the gear, waiting to upshift. once i get the header on there, should help the exhaust side of the motor breathe even better.

this mod ranks number 2 on my list, right next to the tune. both work in tandem though...




1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH

Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:21 AM
So if you use the intake cam for the exhaust you only rotate it 90 degrees from the factory intake position? For some reason I was thinking 180.



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:34 AM
its about 90 degrees out. theres overlap in the intake and exhaust valve cycles. i wasnt exactly the one who figured out how to time it though, was a friend that did. his idea worked out very well though and timing of the cam was so brilliantly simple, it was just stupid.

i could be wrong about this, because i thought 180*'s as well... but i think the reason why its only 90*'s out is because the cams turn at double the speed of the crank. so in one rotation of the crank, your intake and exhaust cams make 2 rotations.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:49 AM
ok that makes sense..thanks.



Re: what to do with a spare LD9 head... 12 hours of madness
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:51 AM
no problem. will answer questions as best as i can.


1997 Cavalier Z24
Bomz Short Ram Intake
Vibrant Cat-Back
KYB GR2 Struts
Goldline 1.75" Springs
RK Sport Upper Insert
RK Sport Lower Dogbone
Custom Tune by Shane @
innovativetuning@rogers.com

15.647 @ 88.02 MPH
Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search