ok so, for awhile now a lot of you know of my love for all motor due to my freaking out in text messages
. all one needs to do to fall in love with the subject is watch paul's car do mid 13's and your freaking hooked. beyond that though, ive always been obsessed with karo's slowfire build and have been dieing to see at least one car get to what it did at 259whp and a 13.1 e/t. with paul's new added parts this winter. scott's bonerfiic update re-build on the stroker, jay's, and kyle's amazing builds i am hoping for one hell of a year for us.
i just wanted to create a thread for discussion on ideas, tips, tricks, anything out there on the subject so we can all build from this TOGETHER. i hate secrets, anything i do i am willing to explain in great detail so it may help someone else out.
quite frankly what we've acomplished so far is barely scratching the surface for other platforms. just today i was reading over on honda-tech where there are SEVERAL 230+whp all motor cars lurking around, even a 300whp build is going on. this blows my mind. the most i have ever rumored to hear about a quad 4 was 273whp and little to absolutely zero information exists on it.
as of now ive got my stock compression all motor build going on, im not expecting a whole lot from it, some where around 190whp would be amazing, but seeing as how its an auto, its very doubtful. but, if i break mike's 159whp auto record ill be happy.
however... my next build is going to be my first 'big boy' all motor balls to the wall endevor. the cubic inch is going to be massive, making it roughly a 2.5L. whats it going to consist of?
- block bored .120 over (yes thats the same size of the 2.3 quad 4 and it is HUGE for an LD9, its been done and will be again, just need to find a block with little to no core shift to acomplish it)
- 2.3 oil pump swap with relocated and new style oil pick-up
- gutted and knife edged standard LD9 crank (try and get ten pounds cut off it).
- JET (rocket parts) titanium 5.8" (LD9 is 5.7") cut to fit LD9 crank
- .120 over DIAMOND DOMED forged pistons with valve reliefs.
- HUGE ported LD9 head (already have it) with 1mm OS SS valves and all the trimings to with it (supertech dual springs, ti retainers)
- HG2 cams (.430 lift, .224 duration) (might go with a different grind, what do you guys think i could spin the bottom end to?)
enjoy. discuss.
What TB are you going to use? What size?
What intake manifold are you going to use?
Where do you want the power band? Are you using a 4-2-1 header or a 4-1 header?
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
yeah, forgot that stuff
ive got an extrude honed HO intake manifold and an FDP billet aluminum 65mm tb.
header will be ron's long tube. believe its a 4-1. depends on how paul's car reacts to his header for final decision...
Rons is VERY nice...well at least the 2.3's he makes are.
What head are you using? LD9?
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
well, that i am on in the air on as well. i just got my 086 back from porting and i noticed it has a crack in the #3 combustion chamber between the intake and exhaust valves so its FUBAR.
id like to use my LD9 head i just got back as well, the exhaust ports are MASSIVE. i need to get it flow benched VS a stocker to see where it really opens up as far as lift though to determine on cam grind.
i really like the idea of using an 086 for ease of manifold bolt-up though.... i would need to have the combustion chambers cut to lower the compression though. that high of compression wreaks havoc on our bearings unfortunately. im pushing it with the .120 over and domed pistons as it is... no idea on the final CR but more than likely its close to 12:1.
how does everyone feel about a custom intake manifold for use in N/A?
maybe not so large as say the one's fetter builds for the turbo engines, but similar....
If the runners and plenum was the correct size it should help. Are you getting your head flow tested? It should help someone properly make the intake manifold.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
like i said before, the only things i didnt get to do that i thought would have really opened my build up is the crank work, and the longer rods. both for obvious reasons. As for the hondas you talked about, ive seen a few like that in person..running Vtec and 8000rpm redline.
not to mention they get that high hp number but their tq is still half that.
personally i would like a better injector option, i dont feel these ford brown tops are the best at "atomizing" fuel.
good news about Rons header though, ive got the prototype in the garage, and it will be test fitted this weekend. If all goes well it will be shipped back to ohio where Rob will be making them for the 2.3 AND 2.4 heads.
you welcome
Listening.....
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
well scott, im glad im planning on doing the stuff you didnt LOL...
im not to up on this though, is it better to have stroked cubic inch or bored cubic inch?
like say would your stroker make more torque than mine even though they are pretty close to the same size or something?
I wont be that @!#$ ecotec owner, but hey guys, GOOD LUCK!!!
I love seeing more J's modded, who knows, maybe I'll make an all motor Eco... or maybe someone already is hmmmm
ps: brad, pulley?
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Quote:
i would need to have the combustion chambers cut to lower the compression though. that high of compression wreaks havoc on our bearings unfortunately
Never heard of this. I would aim for a 13:1 compression if it was me.
FU Tuning
phil-get me pics damn you!
john- its something my machinist did to lower compression on his stroker motor.
this is an 086 head...
Well im glad your OVERboring your cylinders. You got the crank down so props for that Brad.
What WE LD9 and Quad 4 all motor guys need to do is crank work. We modify everything on our motors except for the crank (other than the oil pump drive gear of coarse).
Plan's for my motor are to take it apart AGAINNNNNN. Over bore the cylinders, domed w/valve relief pistons, lighten the crank, install W41 cams. Then find a Z24J to drop it into
It would be nice too if we had the option to drop our heavy timing chain housing system and install a timing belt....less weight, easier cam timing, and more rev
GMR has got nothing on this
I would definately design my own intake manifold, and match it to a larger throttle body.
What tune you running? With them pistons you should be able to advance timing lots more.
I suggest downloading Desktop Dyno and playing around with that.
Great tool for deciding on cam grinds, amongst many other things.
If you want to even, send me the cam info, and a head flow sheet and I can build it for you. I just finished toying around with my build for this year in it and its an awesome program.
Also, the flatter the piston, the more power it should make.
If you can get away with running flat top pistons and make up the compression in the head you will be better off.
oh. well apparently when its pretty high it pounds the bearings out. no idea why...
z yaaaa wrote:oh. well apparently when its pretty high it pounds the bearings out. no idea why...
Never heard that. That would mean do not boost a LD9 then.
FU Tuning
I have had dreams of building a NA motor since I got my car but I won't be able to for a while and I must live through you guys. Keep it up and share the knowledge so others can follow.
I do have a few questions...
Quote:
.120 over
Wow that's a lot over, any reason you think you can take it that far?
Quote:
JET (rocket parts) titanium 5.8" (LD9 is 5.7") cut to fit LD9 crank
How are you going to run longer rods on a zero deck height motor? Moving the wrist pin? Or are your valve reliefs 0.1" deeper to make up the difference?
PSN ID: Phatchance249
he's talking about moving the wrist pins...
Karo said he took 3 lbs off the slowflower crank... so i took 3 lbs off my crank...
my motor is assembled (minus acouple things that need to be torqued to spec and location for the 3 studded bolts on the timing chain cover (i have not read my thread yet)) and will be going in Saturday. It felt soo good turning it over by hand after setting the timing...
all i gotta say is im not sure wich direction i will be going wiht this yet as i am looking for some sort of longevity. but i also want to get some good numbers. when the time comes to make a desicion i'll make it and go with it. But as for now i'm waiting to see what the machine guy tells me about the sonic test. and how my funds turn out.
Brad, if you get pistons from Diamond give them all new measurements. I suspect that the measurements they have from my multiple piston purchases are a little off.
I have also been wondering about the real world benefits to the proper rod length/stroke argument. I have read skwirl's thread a few times and I understand how and why the physics say its more efficient to be as close to the proper RS/L. But how much of a benefit in the numbers are you really going to see? Instead of shelling out the money for custom rods, crank, pistons or some combination of them, would it be more beneficial to just put that money towards other things? Such as titanium rods or just lightening/knifing the crank to get things moving as freely as possible and reducing unwanted bottom end forces that way. Its just something I have been thinking about, I have no experience building motors yet so I could be missing something.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
I thought about HG2's before, but considering the 4t40e's @!#$ty gearing, I figured they would only be useful for a dyno queen. Hopefully they work out for you, though.
I have no signiture
