hey guys, just wondering if anybody here has ever gone far enough and went ahead to get their bearings coated? now this can apply for any of our engines, not just the LD9 (which is what i have and am trying to decide on doing it to). any input would be appreciated.
to my knowledge the LD9 only has one 'performance' oriented bearing available and they are the clevite 77's. they have been more than adequate for pretty much every performance build around over the years.... im just toying with the idea of going a bit further with them and want opinions. i would like to think this would be a good idea for those running stock LD9 oil pumps.
swain tech has this to say about their bearing coatings:
Swain Tech wrote:Swain Tech Coatings' PPM™ solid film lubricant is a thin, tough coating applied to bearing shells to reduce friction and improve the wear life of
both the bearing shells and journals under normal operating conditions. However, it is when operating conditions are less than ideal that PPM™ really goes to work. If there
is a cold start, oil starvation or any other situation where the primary lubrication is less than ideal, PPM™ will provide a solid film of lubrication
to prevent a catastrophic failure.
tech line coatings has this to say:
Tech Line wrote:Coating Bearings:
Lubricating and maintaining such lubrication is critical to the life of the bearing. A bearing is designed to carry tremendous loads while also being soft enough to allow small particles to "embed" in the bearing material. The various designs of bearings all address these primary needs. In addition, a bearing is a sacrificial part, in that it is easier and less expensive to replace bearings due to wear, than to replace the crankshaft.
Tech Line designed DFL-1 primarily as a bearing coating. Coatings come in two basic formulations; Solid Film and Dry Film. While the two terms can be and are to a great extent interchangeable, when it comes to bearings, the differences are important. A Solid Film lubricant derives it's name from the resin film formed during curing. This film has greater internal bond strength than the bond to the substrate, in this case the bearing. A Dry Film, on the other hand, has a weaker internal bond than the bond to the substrate. When these features are applied to a bearing, the Dry Film is superior.
Since no coating is a 100% friction-free material, some pressure will be exerted against the coatings. In a rotational application, such as we are discussing, the coating needs to be able to MINIMALLY flake away when such pressure is reached. Otherwise, the coating can delaminate. DFL-1 functions in this manner. Generally the particle size that can be removed is under 1 micron.
The coating is capable of withstanding pressures in excess of 350,000 psi while lubricating. This is well beyond the strength of the bearing itself. As pressure increases the coating actually becomes more lubricious. In addition, DFL-1 is a "fluid retaining" material that actually holds oil in place on the bearing.
One of the most important features of DFL-1 is it's ability to maintain it's full lubrication characteristics even in extremely thin films. DFL-1 typically will be applied in a film thickness of from .0003" to .001". Obviously this would affect clearances when the film approaches .001". After checking the thickness, burnish with "Scotchbright" or similar material until the film thickness is no more than .0003". During running, the coating will burnish to a near "0" dimension. This characteristic allows the bearing to be run with it's normal installed clearance. Coatings that form a "harder" film will also reduce friction and provide a protective layer to the bearing, however, as these coatings begin to wear , clearances will open up. DFL-1 does not have this problem.
Due to the above features, DFL-1 can extend the life of a bearing while reducing friction, particularly in instances where normal oil film failure could lead to bearing failure. DFL-1 is an easy to apply, water based material that has a low cure temperature of 300F. It can be sprayed or brushed, though a spray application is recommended for best results
my questions:
-you guys think its worth the bother to do this?
-is their any performance gain to it or is it just for longevity purposes?
so.. am i being too anal or would this be a good idea?
Oldsmobile all motor > Saab/Opel boosted
Coatings are definitely worth doing and not just on bearings. But in this case it's more for longevity then power but the easier it can move the more power it will free up. Just keep in mind bearings clearances will get smaller with the coating so the crank may need machine work to make up the difference. It can get expensive for such a small part. Personally I think coating pistons is money better spent.
i did not factor in that the clearances would be different, good catch ryan.
and yes, i am planning on getting the pistons done. actually, the crank, valves, combustion chambers and exhaust ports as well LOL
gonna call swain tech hopefully tomorrow and see how much a full set of LD9 bearings would cost. just to see, even if i dont do it at least we'll have the reference to this post for future builds.
Oldsmobile all motor > Saab/Opel boosted
Watching...
Let us know how this turns out, sounds like a good idea.
"In Oldskool we trust"
if your coating everything make sure you have everything planned. Obviously clearances everywhere will be effected and you can't machine in once its coated or the coating is gone. When I was looking into it I don't remember what company I was going to go with but they listed all there coatings, what they do, what they are recommended for, and then it listed a spec for thickness of the coating so you knew what to acount for before boring the cylinders and and ordering bearings and stuff.
all right, will do. thanks man.
Oldsmobile all motor > Saab/Opel boosted
Why stop at just lube-coatings? Why not get the pistons-faces, chambers & block exterior plasma- or ceramic-coated... just to help make power & improve efficiency?
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Sorry... Didn't see that.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Brad, anything ever come of this? DId you get a price?
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
Yeah dlf is great, piston skirts and all bearings. ceramic coatings on the top of the pistons and heat transfer improving coating on the bottom. It will make more power, normally its only worth it for competition engines trying to get every tenth of a hp possible out of the engine.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
not yet thomas.... still need to pick up my main bearings lol
www.swaintech.com will hook you up very well.
Lo ko coating are doing my pistons as we speak...
They are local to me, and reputable.
nothing wrong with local stuff. www.techlinecoatings.com can get ANYBODY started. so far the stuff ive had done was local and as long as all the proper procedures and protocol are followed to the letter stuff turns out perfectly.
I contacted FFWDConnection and was given a price of $75 to do the rod and main bearings. They apply the coating in a .003" thickness to there is no need for additional crank clearancing.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
wow... that place is neat. the "butcher" treatment they do to cranks is identical to what mine is.
Yeah, the crank is a nice piece. Had it in my talon. Their work is top notch.
Ive thought about seeing whY they can do with the ld9 crank.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
Just got notification that my bearings showed back up at the house. I will post pictures when I get off work.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
awesome, cant wait to see em!
Here are some pictures....
I didn't take a before picture.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
Adding this to my list for the Wife's Sunaliers future LD9 build.
Love the idea of adding that layer of protection for the "oh shoot the oil lights on, my crank bearings are gone"
Idiot proofing crank bearings, who'da thunk it?
look just like i thought they would.
you sir are awesome.
Has this ever been done to a ld9 before?
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
Not to my knowledge.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Scorpio1 bishes... wrote:Adding this to my list for the Wife's Sunaliers future LD9 build.
Love the idea of adding that layer of protection for the "oh shoot the oil lights on, my crank bearings are gone"
Idiot proofing crank bearings, who'da thunk it?
They still wont work without the proper amount of oil.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
