I'm looking into supercharging my 96 cavalier. I've searched on here and other sites but haven't found a good answer to this. My question is how much hp can the LN2's stock rotating assembly handle? Could someone tell me what the generally acceptable levels for the rods, pistons, and crank are?

256.7 horsepower.

What upgrades are you needing these items to support?

i was only planning on getting to 300 hp. Im thinking only mods i need are exhaust, log manifold, maybe port an polish, and then run a m90 with an intercooler and megasquirt for fuel only. why 256.7hp? is that a joke, or did someone boost a stock ln2 and have it blow on the dyno at that? i was hoping someone would tell me how much each part can handle so i know what i need to upgrade. i figure the cranks probably fine, but do i need after market pistons? or can i get away with just rods?

colton fullenkamp wrote:run a m90

I'll be interested to see how you make that fit(seriously, no sarcasm). I've heard a lot of numbers floating around but everyone pretty much agrees that the crank and rods are rock solid up until at least 250. It's the pistons that will probably go first, especially with forced induction. There isn't a lot of meat before the compression ring. Of course, you would need a very good tune. The real question is how do you expect to make 300hp on a stock bottom end? My custom tuned eco with an m62 intercooled setup would be hard pressed even to make 230hp (dyno test pending).


"In Oldskool we trust"

300 whp? That's quite a bit. Build the motor and go turbo if your set on 300 on the dyno. It's a 96 too so no hpt unless you swap the computer and harness


2004 Cavalier Sedan

I think you would be the first to actually use a m90 on that motor... good luck.

jason norwood wrote:I think you would be the first to actually use a m90 on that motor... good luck.

That's kinda the reason i wanted to use the m90 instead of the m62. plus its actually cheaper. I guess i'll get some forged pistons, prolly eagle rods. and a new oem crank and get that cryo treated. Are there any other oem cranks that are stronger that will fit this motor?

turboZ24cavi wrote:300 whp? That's quite a bit. Build the motor and go turbo if your set on 300 on the dyno. It's a 96 too so no hpt unless you swap the computer and harness

is 300 alot for these motors? damn hondas do 400 0n stock internals

You understand you can't just bolt an M90 on, right? And once you do all the fab work, you still won't be anywhere close to 300. You'll be lucky to get over 200 without more head work and supporting mods.

yeah i was gonna do a kinda remote setup where its mounted to a sheetmetal box so i can run it through an intercooler then the intake.

OP,

That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard,

Could you pleas point out where this will go?

I'm shaving and tucking the bay, so there's going to be more space, and honestly the blower will prolly end up mounted on top the valve cover and i'll have to get a big ass cowl hood.

>:o


ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!!!

jason norwood wrote:OP,

That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard,

Could you pleas point out where this will go?

That's a 98-02 2200, the OP has a 96 2.2. No need to confuse him more

I believe 275whp has been done on a ln2 in stock form with a turbo setup and good tuning. After a good 3+ years like that I think the ring lands did let go.



FU Tuning

This thread is ignorant as @!#$. Seriously Idk why people bother talking @!#$ about stuff they have noooooo idea about. Im actually with the OP on this one.

First, the 2200 has been taken to 22 psi and 300 whp for awhile on a completely stock bottom end. QWKLN2 did it. Theres a thread. Dont believe me look it up. Some headwork and what not but albeit a stock rotating assembly. Its not really a question of "How much power?" Its a question of the how well maintained is the bottom end. Is it rebuilt? Is it a 200k mile motor. The 2.2 and 2200 are ugly cousins so I wouldnt put it past a 2.2 to hold on just as well.

How high you rev will play more into it. Im willing to be more than a few of these "weak" engines have been wrecked by some moron hotrodding them because they think we have the powerband of a Honda engine. If someone built a 2.2 with the budget of a D16Z6 then it would hold up to power just as well. The problem is no one does because it takes more skill than just inserting rod B in slot A.

Second, SUPERCHARGING AN OHV 2.2 IS VERY POSSIBLE. If you lack the mechanical ability to see and understand the reason you can then dont say you cant. Like the OP said. Its called a remote mount. SEARCH. Ive found a thread of a remote mounted M90 on a 2.2. I had planned an M62 on a 2200. Remove the PS pump, mount it low behind the engine and run the belt drive off of that placement. Direction doesnt matter BTW. Either forgo PS or add an electric PS pump. Rock crawlers love them. Either a nice custom mani or an IC plate out to a front mount IC then back to the intake mani. Its all on the fabrication and a lot of firewall massaging.

IMO an M90 is waaaay too big for a 2.2 engine. Its designed for a 3.8L engine. Roughly 1 and 3/4 the size and flow you need. The physics of turning a supercharger at 10k RPMs will make your head spin. Add to that the amount of rotational energy it takes to compress 90 cuft of air per revolution. Youll sucking a lot of power off of a small engine. An M62 from an older Bonneville would be great for what you want to do. It was also on a 3.8 but it was very undersized.

This is one of those times when I hate this place. Be helpful and not an asshole. It helps develop a community better.

In the ops defense, it really wouldnt be super hard to delete your power steering and stick an m62 on a custom intake manifold, provided you have hella fabrication skills / equipment as well as a fat disposale bank account. However to the op, you have just about the perfect donor for a 3x00 swap. Which you could probably slap together for a bit under 1000 bucks. It would be almost foolish to go any other way if you want to keep your car. Otherwise selling it and starting with a low budget ld9 or l61 would be the way to get onto boos. Just my .02

Thanks Brian, that was actually helpful. and yeah, i know its over sized but i didn't think it was that monstrous, they put m62s on the cobalts so i assume that's about the right size for a 2.2 if it came factory on a 2.0. I'm not sure how much boost a m62 will make on a 2.2 without upgraded heads, but the m45s that you could get for the z24s only made like what? 5 psi? so .3 liters bigger than the m62 doesn't seem too extreme. I was hoping it would make it easier to get higher boost levels like 20 psi, but i don't really know that much about superchargers.

i just changed my name wrote:In the ops defense, it really wouldnt be super hard to delete your power steering and stick an m62 on a custom intake manifold, provided you have hella fabrication skills / equipment as well as a fat disposale bank account. However to the op, you have just about the perfect donor for a 3x00 swap. Which you could probably slap together for a bit under 1000 bucks. It would be almost foolish to go any other way if you want to keep your car. Otherwise selling it and starting with a low budget ld9 or l61 would be the way to get onto boos. Just my .02

If by 3x00 swap you mean a v6 swap, then i've thought about it, and your prolly right that would be the best/easiest/cheapest thing to do.

Yes. The 60 degree v6 that is. In your case a 3100 or a 3400 would be damn near bolt in. They are crazy fun in our light ass js too. Years ago i had 3100 95 cav for about 6 months until it was totaled and replaced with my 05. If i ever had the money for 2 summer fun cars i would go 3400 na and never look back

I think you really changed my opinion, I'm thinking 3100 now, still m90 but low boost.i wonder what kind of mpgs that would get. still not as cool as a fast 2.2 though, but
wayyyy cheaper.

colton fullenkamp wrote:Thanks Brian, that was actually helpful. and yeah, i know its over sized but i didn't think it was that monstrous, they put m62s on the cobalts so i assume that's about the right size for a 2.2 if it came factory on a 2.0. I'm not sure how much boost a m62 will make on a 2.2 without upgraded heads, but the m45s that you could get for the z24s only made like what? 5 psi? so .3 liters bigger than the m62 doesn't seem too extreme. I was hoping it would make it easier to get higher boost levels like 20 psi, but i don't really know that much about superchargers.

No problem. I hate to see some of the vultures on this place be dicks because theyre closed minded.

PSI really isnt what you should be looking at. Boost is just a measure how much restriction there is between your cylinder and TB basically. So an M62 on a stock head would have higher PSI numbers than an M62 on a ported head but the one with a ported head would make more power in a perfect world.

An M45 is great on a stock 2.4 or one with a little bit of headwork but you very quickly start to push it out of its compressor effiiciency range (thats another topic in itself) and turn it into a big blow drier essentially. Thats why some guys go to an M62 with a custom mani on their 2.4s. Because it moves more air per revolution so you dont have to spin it as fast to move as much air.

Dont do a 3100. Do a 3400 if youre going to go V6. An M90 on a 3400 is doable but youre going to literally have the entire SC sticking out of a hole in the hood. Basically you take the stock 3400 upper intake mani and weld a flat plate to it that matches the bolt pattern and holes on the M90. Theres a man with a Beretta who did it. Too big of an SC and not worth the BS IMO. There is a guy running an M62 remote mounted on an Alero. The SC is mounted towards the trans side of the engine bay and a jackshaft runs from the SC coupler to a pulley on the belt drive. This is popular in the Honda world too.

If i do a v6 (which im thinking i will) ill just go balls out and do a 3.8, it would be the same price or cheaper except the fly wheel. which i think i might, just might be able to get machined down for free.

Also does any one have an good links for resources about superchargers and efficiency maps and what not? i know that psi is just the restriction and what not and what your really looking at is cfm, but i've also seen calculators for horsepower based on boost. so its a little confusing, i can fabricate pretty much anything i could possibly need, but as far as boost and tuning I'm a total noob.

Looks like Brian did a good job clearing up all of the misconceptions.

crank is solid
rods are good past 300
pistons can survive with good tuning, although the '96 had a deeper dish (more susceptible to failure than the '98+)--add a little more gap to the compression ring for insurance

The Eaton maps are easy to find, but they don't read like turbo maps.

Count me in to the 'M90 is too much' crowd; I think the M62 would be a better fit with your goals.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster