So to not thread jack on The Poonman's thread about how much his car is worth and to continue some thoughts from what Craig Lewis and Brock Landers touched on I thought I would create this. For some reason I have a good hunch this may have been touched on in the past somewhere on this site but I haven't searched (yea i know, use search) Anywho, am I corect in saying that GM is actually running at a loss these days, ie. they are losing upwards of millions of dollars, maybe even closer to a billion (I don't remember an exact figure, but it was large) a year? I thought I heard this rumour a few years and it didn't really think much of it. Sure my dad's cousin owns and GM dealership and thats all most of my family drives but I was different back then when I drove my 92 Honda Accord (flame away lol). Now that I have a Sunfire, I guess I am more in tune with what GM is doing. Anyways I thought I would just leave this thread open for debate on anyways ideas of GM on a whole or in a specific case.
Side note: To touch on what Craig Lewis said about Mazda...I don't get it either...they are just Fords in disguise.
I don't think GM I loosing. Much of the loss was in the stock market. I do think they are using their tough times to trim the fat and to bribe governments into more tax breaks and favours. GM has been selling off it's profitable divisions over the last several years. Why, you might ask? They are profitable in every other part of the world. I would bet most of their investment is in China. Most companies plan for a growing business. North America at this time, is not really groing. In fact. three Chevy dealers have closed in the last few years in my city. This might be a signal for recession, or it could simply show that there are simply too many GM dealers to start with.
GM's biggest problem is that the corporate world is completely isolated from the showroom floor and their customer. Nobody at HQ has any idea what it's really like. Nor will they listen to the lowly common saleman. The one group of people that actually know the reality. I suppose because they believe the theory they were tought in university must be accurate. The egos that GM sends around to "train" salesman are even more full of @!#$. If you try to confront the BS, you are literally admonished like a child in daycare, so that they can continue the bull@!#$ baffles brains culture and keep their make work jobs.
The guys still selling now are the ones getting used US cars and trucks. I know new car salesman that are selling 2 used for every new. You can blame GM Canada's refusal to adjust pricing. The common customer now knows how much they have been screwed over the years. I know someone that bought a $200,000 Porsche. Porsche, before he picked it up and after he agreed to the deal, called him up and dropped the price 40 g's becuae of the dollars big dump. They knew, if they screwed him on this, he might never buy another.
I do think that many lost customers are getting frustrated by their own choices. Buying a car is complex. It's very easy to get roped into a deal that doesn't serve you well. The customer then blames the retailer and moves on to make the same mistakes with another brand.
point well made Craig. The sales are in US used cars. I definitely know a few people who have scooped up some used cars and trucks from the States for thousand's less than a Canadian equivalent. It is interesting to see that Porshe cares about its customers on an entirely different level than GM. Though this can be understood because Proshe reaches to a certain market group and knows if they do not keep those clients happy they will loose a lot. It seems as if GM is slow on the draw (not like that is highly unusual IMO) to realize how keep their clientele happy. Back to what have you have mentioned about GM's coporate culture....even I know, as a civil engineering student...that the @!#$ I learn at Uni means nothing in the real world, it is only background knowledge to help you learn in the real world. It seems that GM's penny pinchers don't realize reality as you have stated. I also agree with the fact that the honest salesman is hard to come by. My dad attempted to be a car salesman for his cousin, telling the client straight up what they were getting. It seems like that wasn't enough and he lost that job just because he wasn't forceful and so on and so forth.
Onto some other thoughts of mine...I believe that finally, the penny pinches have realized what kind of car GM needs to make. Take for example the new Malibu (nice car btw) is finally a competitor in its class. The Vette has always been a bargain as far as perfomance per dollar go. And finally, IMO, they are competing in the turbo 4 cylinder market. Took them long enough to see that Dodge's experiment with the SRT-4 was a huge success, selling over 10x the amount of cars originally slated for production. Not to mentional the sales that came out of the Diamond Star Motors deal and Subaru's success with their boxer engines. Now if only the Cobalt SS Turbo was all wheel drive....
Thousands less? For trucks, it can be 5 figures.
Higher price point means that you will run out of customers to burn much faster. GM sells to the masses, so it will take time. Has the time come in North America? Since North America is not the growth centre of the world now, I'm sure it's no longer the priority. You would think there is much to loose. The book of business must dwarf Porsche's.
University most importantly opens many doors. I know a young lady who's first job pays 60. Her degree is in Theatrical History. She does not work in her chosen industry. Many university students/grads and most importantly the proffs. forget that there is a whole world actually working outside of the classroom. I have several engineer friends that still can't get past some teachings. It's possible that their ability to think outside the box has been squashed forever.
I started driving in the 80's. GM didn't have the exclusive on garbage cars. Most younger people have no idea how bad hondas and toyotas were. If you were around when Hyundai came, you would shudder at the thought of owning one. As the other companies grow to be even remotely as large as GM is, they will suffer the same issues of mass scale. Most of the big ones are buying the parts from the same sources now. GM spent 160 dollars more on interior for Cobalt comapred to the J. It shows. Yet they are still possitioning thier cars at a slightly lower price pint than the imports. It's a strategy. The best place to limit costs, in order to pass it on to the customer, is by things that don't make the car less reliable. Perceived quality is low, but reliability is top notch. Marketing tells us that a close fitting body panel, or a perfectly smooth finish=good value and reliable. They are mistaken, but your pals will be impressed.
Commission sales make any place a mad house. GM corporate workers should be forced to work the floor. There is nothing like the pressue of making a deal when you don't have the money for rent. If you don't tell the customer what they want to hear, you'll lose the deal. I was envious of the more experienced fleet managers. They could operate as they chose. Years of building a client book allows this. Selling to the walk in customer is painful and where the catch 22 comes in. Damned to hell if you hustle. Damned if you don't. I can say that I have never been lied to as much. People come in with their backs up. What they don't realise is that a few questions and experience can make those lies totally transparent. The only car salesman that are not jaded are the ones that have less than 3 months on the floor.
The new Malibu is certainly a good step. We wont really see how good of a car it is until they are on the road for a little longer. They certainly missed the boat on the styling of the last car. Although I liked it. Tastefully plain.
I'm not sure if the FI cobalt was really intended to make a great deal of money. I consider it a Halo car. One that give credibility to the chassis. Without it, the Cobalt would be thought of only as a reskinned Cavalier. Now, the young driver, permanently influence by the Fast and the Furious, will consider a GM as well. The majority of buyers continue to buy within their last chosen brand. You have to get them in the door early in life. GM simply had no "cool" in thier lower cars to bring the young ones in. I sometimes wonder if warranty claims would outweigh the additional profits. May seem to think that they purchased a warranted track car. For that, you'll need to by the Porsche I refered to earlier.
I too would like to see a small 4wd GM car. I doubt its in the cards. They simply take more fuel to run. GM has a lot of work to do to meet CAFE. Since trucks are far more profitable, I doubt they will use up and the headroom in the small car market. The small car is a means to bigger profit int he future. It's an almost subsidized market in the states. In Canada the small car market is 53 %. It's a whole different story. Making a system designed in the US a pain in the ass to use in Canada.
Craig I must say, as one the younger guys on the site I would to thank you for sharing some of your thoughts. It's definitely good to learn from others who have been around for a bit longer (not that I'm saying your old of anything haha). Care to tell me what you mean by CAFE? I'm sorry, I will admit I don't know every acronym. Thanks again.
I'm feelin' old right now. lol. I might be even more opinionated than when I was younger.
Sorry I did not reply before. I did the family thing this weekend.
Cafe is a standard the US has mandated for car manufacturers. It requires their fleet of cars to get a minimum average fuel economy and emissions. With GM selling mostly trucks in the US, they are have much to do before the new standards are in place. I think 2008. It's the reason GM is using direct injection on the new engines and wy thet are putting underpowered engines in their new crossover vehicles.
My bad, I wasn't trying to make you feel old haha. But ya, people seem to be more opinionated as they get older.
Hey! no problem, family comes first.
Ah thanks for clearing up what Cafe was. Yes well if truck sales make up a large percentage of your sales then yes, much has to change to meet that required avg fuel economy. I'm not sure I follow as to why they are putting underpowered engines in the crossovers though.
No. I feel old all on my own.
I was refering to the Acadia and Enclave. They come with the same engine that the CTS(3.6) does. The tranny helps, but such a heavy vehicle is going to have to work hard to get the job done.
We got hammered into little cars in the mid 70's. Here we go again.
