i was wondering if you could put a stock sunbird turbo on to a 94 ohc2.0 sunbird without haveing many problems, also if you can, about how much $ would it cost?
so it just bolts right up? any wiring have to be done?
ok so i just checked out some prices from some scrap yards and the lowest i got was 75 bucks, is that a decent price or should i look harder?
I'm not very up to speed on the 2.0 OHC turbo but i can tell you that you'll need more than just the turbo.
you'll need the turbo exhuast manifold, turbo, turbo exhaust setup, turbo ECM, turbo ECU at the very least. There will also be some wiring differences between the two. the turbo ECU most likely uses a 2bar map sensor setup and will have wiring to control the wastegate.
Since your car is a 94 i think it already has the MPFI setup that the turbo motor used, if you have TBI injection you'll have to switch to MPFI. You'll need to swap in the bigger turbobird radiator, and fuel pump also.
Someone with more knowledge can tell you more than i can, but you need to look at this swap like this: Its basically the same as putting a turbo in a car that never came with one to start with, This swap will be easier though since all of the parts are already made and availible, you just need to get all of the parts needed for the complete turbo setup.
i don't beleave they have a electric wastegate. it should be controled by the amount of pressure... or boost.
the turbo is a garette t25. small but effective. i don't beleave theres any bigger direct swaps, but you could probably have an adapter plate made at a machine shop to house a t3...a t4, a t3/t4 hybrid, ect. but i've read nothing but good from the t3 on the sunbird turbos.
i'd replace the raditor with a turbo one, because i think it is a lil better...
if you switch to the fuel pump, injectors, you should swap ecu's. I HIGHLY recomened you do the swap. Fuel will be a main factor on how your cars running under boost.
i'd take the intake manifold as well. it does say turbo across it,
your gonna need to go to the exhuast shop and have a bigger downpipe, and 2 1/2-3inch exhuast added. your gonna want the air to get out as fast as possible.
i have a turbo gauge cluster from a 88 sunbird gt turbo for sale, you may be able to use it. if you want all the monitoring, and the factory look
...
so do u guys think i would be able to use all of this off a 89 turbo gt?
yes. i recomend takeing the head and cam carrier as well. if it's in good shape, clean it up, have it pressure tested, use better head bolts, and swap it too... you probably should just buy the whole car for parts, this way you will have everything you'll need.
...
if it runs 18 flat not (yes i know, it slow) what do you estimate it will run after?
like stenger said you'll need a lot of parts so try to get the whole car ( or just sell your 94 and fix up the 89 they're prettier anyways
), I would upgrade your injectors also keep in mind that the NA trannies are junk and won't last long behind a turbo, especially on the track. I think the turbo radiators are the same size as the NA 2.0s.(bad design yes) Use one out of a V6 Z, pretty easy swap, those are bigger. As far as times, its hard to tell a there's a lot of factors, track, tires how much boost, weight, if you can shift, yadda yadda. Stock turbo birds ran mid 14s at 9 psi from the factory IIRC. The wastegate actuator works off vacuum from the intake manifold btw where are u located? I've got some extra parts taking up space I could let go for the right price
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Fudd wrote:like stenger said you'll need a lot of parts so try to get the whole car ( or just sell your 94 and fix up the 89 they're prettier anyways ), I would upgrade your injectors also keep in mind that the NA trannies are junk and won't last long behind a turbo, especially on the track. I think the turbo radiators are the same size as the NA 2.0s.(bad design yes) Use one out of a V6 Z, pretty easy swap, those are bigger. As far as times, its hard to tell a there's a lot of factors, track, tires how much boost, weight, if you can shift, yadda yadda. Stock turbo birds ran mid 14s at 9 psi from the factory IIRC. The wastegate actuator works off vacuum from the intake manifold btw where are u located? I've got some extra parts taking up space I could let go for the right price
Just from memory the V6 radiator wont work with the OHC motor, the hoses are in the wrong places. And im almost positive the Turbo got a bigger radiator (3 row where the N/A was a 1 row)
But don't take my word for it.
Well I've had all three a NA 2.0, turbo 2.0 and a V6, the turbo and NA rad are the same, even the same part number from Advance there may be a heavy duty aftermarket one availble but factory both were a single row hence a lot of blown head gaskets on turbo birds (and NA ones for that matter), the V6 radiator isn't a direct fit the inlets outlets are on opposite sides but if you're good enough to turbo an NA 2.0 you'll have no problem getting it to work, I think there's a writeup on V6Z24 on it even. I'll see if I can find it, I know its been done by several people before. (BTW another good websource for ya custom)
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
o yeah pistons... turbo ones are duhhhh what's the word?... they have a dome cut in the top to lower the compression. NA ones would probably work ok, but if you're going cash crazy go ahead and get them too. If that parts turbo bird has a 5spd, grab it now, those are stinking hard to find and are one of the best FWD trannies GM put in their cars.
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Be careful here, guys.
Pezed is absolutely right. The v6 radiator is different. I've posted this in another thread. It has upper and lower hose locations on opposite tanks from the OHC engine radiator. The upper hose connects to the RH tank in a car with OHC engine, and it connects to the LH tank in an OHV (including v6) car.
Be sure to check your year before saying "the turbo and NA radiator are the same." In 89 they are not the same. The NA , non AC radiator may be single core. The NA, w/ AC radiator is 2 core. The turbo standard cooling radiator is 2 core. The turbo HD cooling (from the factory) radiator is 3 core. I know, because the friendly parts store I get my parts from accidentally ordered a standard cooling radiator to replace my OEM HD cooling radiator.
The wastegate is mechanical. There is an electric bleed solenoid in the wastegate signal line which will reduce the boost signal to keep the wastegate closed. The solenoid is pulsed by the ecm.
The turbo from a pontiac TGP is larger than the Sunbird turbo and will bolt to the stock Sunbird turbo exhaust manifold.
Pezed also gave a nice list of items needed. I'll add that you'd need to replace the DIS with the distributor from the 89, or have a custom chip burned to work with the DIS system. DIS + stock chip will have timing that's something in the neighborhood of 60 deg. advanced from where it should be.
The injectors in the turbo bird are 30#/hr units. They're good enough for a first turbo project. The mpfi pump will make enough pressure to work with the turbo injectors, but no guarantees as to the amount of fuel it will pump under high load. For a no brainer swap, change the pump to a turbo 'bird part.
The intake manifold has a smaller throttle body than the mpfi intake. The fuel supply and return lines are on opposite sides of the rail in the turbo and MPFI cars. The turbo fuel pressure regulator connects with a different fitting than the mpfi regulator. The short of it is, use the manifold that's in your mpfi car for best results.
Absolutely grab the ecm and chip. That ecm can adjust fuel and spark for boost, can add fuel, cut timing, and cut boost in the case of knock, and is generally easy to tune if you decide to start burning your own chips. The knock issue is important because the NA engine has slightly higher compression and is more likely to have a knock issue.
There are differences in the cam and head between NA and turbo car. I'm looking for an NA cam to measure for possible swap into my turbo engine. But for the safest, most trouble free swap I'd consider swapping head and cam on your car. Then again, everything might work fine if you leave the NA part on.
Last but not least, almost all of this is in the archives.
Maybe someone with some time can make a "turbo an NA OHC guide" to answer this faq.
-->Slow
Quote:
The wastegate is mechanical. There is an electric bleed solenoid in the wastegate signal line which will reduce the boost signal to keep the wastegate closed. The solenoid is pulsed by the ecm.
not trying to argue but what type of setup are you talking about here? I have an 88 and an 89 (both stock) that are both vacuum controlled, no electronics
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
yeah. fudd's 88 is defently vaccum. i had the car prior to him and i had half the motor torn apart... there vaccum...
and the getrag 5spd is the best tranny to go for. they don't ware out unless put under a hudge load. and i doubt you'll post over 10...
The pistons are "spherical" (sp?) and fordged... you can find new pistons and connecting pins on Ebay sometimes
There is also a DOHC swap avaliable... Its from a Daweeo motor i think. Not sure on the p/t. but i remember reading someone here was working on doing it.
just make sure to upgrade your exhuast, fuel, and if you run more than 5pounds with the stock internals.... INTERCOOL IT! actualy, intercool it regardless to what you do. you'll be pleased. if you can score the Charge pipe (orange pipe leading to the t/b... get it. or else go to the muffler shop and have one bent for you... you should probably pick up a bov and mounting flange for it and have them weld it on. will reduce the load on the turbo during shifting.
...
The OEM wastegate opens between 4 and 6 psi if connected directly to the intake. If your car produced more boost than this without any modifications, then the solenoid is installed. It's attached to a head bolt behind and to the driver's side of the oil fill cap. If you don't know what it is you might think it's an EGR valve soleniod. I'll see if I can snap a picture tonight.
-->Slow
Do a search for 2.0 OHC FAQ in this forum and you'll find all you need to know about this swap, and to do it your pretty much stripping the motor down to teh block cause you have to change the pistons cause the turbo ones are dished to lower the compression to accept boost and there forged to take the force from boost, if you leave the NA ones in there they will probobly melt. plus the MPFI sunbirds (which yours is) have a compression ratio of something like 9.2:1 and turbo sunbirds have 8.0:1, so theres a pretty big diffrence there, the heads are the same, the cam is diffrent but dosent need to be changed but its a good idea, all the wiring has to be swapped over just unplug it from the firewall on each side and take everything, it explains it all in the FAQ.
I'm also working on an updated version of it with more info on teh DOHC swap.
slowolej wrote:The OEM wastegate opens between 4 and 6 psi if connected directly to the intake. If your car produced more boost than this without any modifications, then the solenoid is installed. It's attached to a head bolt behind and to the driver's side of the oil fill cap. If you don't know what it is you might think it's an EGR valve soleniod. I'll see if I can snap a picture tonight.
-->Slow
Ahhh is that that little black plastic box that clips on? I thought that was for emissions or just a vacuum connection box, that makes sense now, I stand corrected, and I remember now, I did run into some trouble hooking that up (probably not knowing what the heck it was for didn't help lol)
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
That's the thing.
I didn't get pictures, but still can if needed.
If it's hooked up wrong you get lotsa boost because the pressure signal to the wastegate is blocked.
-->Slow
you might as well just get a crate 2.0 turbo from deawoo. save yourself the trouble.
fudd wrote.....
Quote:
"I've got some extra parts taking up space I could let go for the right price"
what kinda parts and how much.....anyone have a wiring harness from an 89 or 90 Gt?
They said it couldn't be done, but that drives me to succeed!!!!!!
Project Turbo underway!
jordan kruger wrote:you might as well just get a crate 2.0 turbo from deawoo. save yourself the trouble.
you really don't know anything do you???
...
martianbird wrote:fudd wrote.....
Quote:
"I've got some extra parts taking up space I could let go for the right price"
what kinda parts and how much.....anyone have a wiring harness from an 89 or 90 Gt?
Not ready to let go of my harnesses or compys yet, I'm doing a auto to 5spd swap so I need to do some splicing, I've got a head and a block that supposebly ran before the head was pulled, (needed a head gasket), I've also got a 1.8 exhaust manifold w/ a T2 turbo. email me at cj8_22602*yahoo.com
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
