wats the cheapest and easiest way to make a decent hp number out of a 3.1 n/a???
cheap in the short term...probably nitrous
cheap in the long term, well, quite possibly an engine change (3400?)
turbo can get labour intensive pretty quickly, a supercharger can do the same, be it roots, centrifugal or whatever.
Have you seen the turbo wagon?
13.90 @ 105.46mph
street tires
rough tune
im trying to keep the 3.1 thats wat my question was not wat should i do to make more power without the 3.1.
cheap, easy and horsepower dont go in the same sentence. if you want power, its gonna cost money and not gonna be easy. speed costs money, how fast do you want to go???
what are your goals??? honestly, if you want to make around 180-200hp for the cheapest would to swap a 3400. i know thats not what you want to hear, but thats the truth. a 3400 can be swapped for under $1500. to make a 3.1l have 180hp n/a you will need to do some serious porting in the heads and intake, or swap a 3400 top end onto the 3.1l. the top end swap will need everything you need to do a complete motor swap except for the front mount bracket (rad hoses, throttle cable, ect). along with that, you will need a good cam, valve springs to match, some 1.6:1 roller tip rockers, and would be best to put in some good aftermarket pistons (forged or hyperutectic), beam polish the rods, balance the rotating assembly. i would estimate that to make 180hp from a 3.1l is gonna cost $3000+.
just as a refference, my 2.8l ironhead build, with clutch and building the headers and exaust cost me $5000 canadian. no dyno numbers and now that i can tune it, calculating from my injector duty cycle im around 180hp. last year at the track i managed a 15.4 maxing out 15lb injectors on a stock computer. now im almost maxing 19lb injectors. im figuring around 30hp more now that i can tune. should put it in the 14s.
if your looking for less power, i could give you some tips, but saying you want to make lots of power cheap doesnt get you anywere. set a goal and stick to it, thats the only way to get anywere.
i think u just need t know wat ur doing and anything can be done cheap, im getting the heads and intake manis p&p for free, and my car now stock runs a 15.9 with very bad compression every cylinder is at 60psi and its missing bad and it runs a 15.9.
chris the guy above you knows a lot more then you do when it comes to the 60 degree v6. and with jbodies in general...... when he says the 2.8/3.1 will not make power without throwing a lot of $ at it he is correct.... i'm glad you getting the heads and intake ect.. all port and polished for free, tho i hope their done professionally by someone who has some knowledge when it comes to that sort of thing. also the factory ecm won't know what to do once it's flowing better and has a bigger cam installed as well, so you reach needing to have the ECM tuned as well....... trust me chris we've been down the "make power with a 3.1" road a couple times, if your ADAMENT that you want to keep the 3.1 then i would suggest doing a hybrid with the 3X00 topend....... that will make you some decent power once you get ecm tuning out of the way......... also if all else fails then boost could be your new best friend tho i wouldn't reccomend running more than 5-8psi through a stock 3.1....
watch for flying sparks!!!
i also had my head porting done free, my dad has been porting heads for 30 years. i got some ausome deals on machining because between my dad and i, we send a lot of stuff to the one machinist. i also have some great parts guys that realy came through on my parts. and yes i could have done it cheaper, but then i would have been sacrificing reliability. see along with power, it has to be reliable. no point it throwing a bunch of money into a motor and having it break all the time and costing you more money, plus the downtime gets ya, and your time has to be worth something.
i bet if i wanted i could have cut about $1500 out of that build. if i had gone with hyperutectic pistons instead of forged and cast rings instead of moly rings, i could have saved $400 right there. i didnt have to spend $150 on balancing, or the money magnufluxing the heads or rods, and i could have just used a stock replacment oil pump instead of a high volume mellings unit. i could have used cheaper bearings and not use arp rod bolts or those SI valves. however had i not done all this, i would not be reving this motor to 7k like i do, id have a hard time going over 6k, and had i done it im sure i would have had issues. as a result of the extra money i spent on reliability, i have 45k km on this motor and absolutly no problems, and not a spec in the oil filter.
you still havent answered my question yet, what are your goals???
my goal is to sell the pos cavalier and get something that already has power, cuz i dnt have 3k to go blow on a pos cavalier and im not taking 2yrs to build a car that wont even run 14's in the 1/4 mile when i can go buy a car that will run the stock for 2k.
k good then!
but i'm sorry yours is a pos....
however if your saying that about sharkey's car... your dead wrong! his is fully built to support any kind of forced induction that he wants to throw at it. unfortunately as he was told during his build, the intake becomes a restriction above 5500rpm, and now has to fabricate a custom upper intake plenum.... however when he's done and has a mid 13's streetable jbody it will be welllllllll worth it!
watch for flying sparks!!!
mine is not a pos by any means its the cleanest around and the best looking, but i dnt like the fact the only way i can get it to go fast is to turbo it which i dnt like turbo, or motor swap, and i dnt feel like a motor swap, but i might keep it anyways cuz its so damn clean and rare around here.just check it out for urself.
my z24 cavi
so i guess that shut you up!!!
didnt shut me up, i just felt that there was nothing that needed to be said.
i was not talking to u i was talking to boostnbags when he said my car was a pos.
your the one that called your own car a pos
chris nuse wrote:my goal is to sell the pos cavalier
and boostnbags was just showing sympathy for you because you stated your car was a pos
whatever, im done with this post
actually i was out. but you called your own car a pos nuse i used your own words in context.
watch for flying sparks!!!
i did
FFP UDP
FFP Chip(only 1 that works lol)
FDP 62mm TB
ported UIM
Hiflow cat with 2.5" catback
WAI
and i ran a 15.5 with clamped springs and a cluctch/tranny that went to @!#$ about 3 weeks after my last run, since then i swapped in a new tranny, centerforce clutch, apex springs and KYB GRs all around anda welded my tranny mount solid but i never got a chance to hit a track again
how fast do u want to go?id say i spent around $7-800CDN for all my parts, i got some used though....
FDP 62MM TB, FFP Performance Chip, FFP Underdrive Pully, WAI, Hi Flow Cat, 2.5" Catback, Functional Ram Air Hood, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
Same thing we all told you on V6Z24 Nuse, you aren't going to get any more power out of the 3.1. quit wasting time and swap in a good engine allready!
BTW, i'd like to see a 3.1 run with 60 PSI on 5 cyls.. ain't gonna happen, lol
^ and again this guy would know
watch for flying sparks!!!
well it does but for now im just p&p the entire top end, udp, intake, and tb. so i hope to run low 15's high 14's eventually till i get the money to swap a 3400.
dude you really need to cut the attitude... step back... and just listen.... no ones knocking you or telling you off... alot of people here may know more than you... and it may bother you... but dont just start trash talking starting noob $h!t... a motor swap may not be what you want to do... but its your best bet... dont come in... ask for advice... and start flipping out...
Hey Chris,
You know from my posts on here and elsewhere that I am very loyal to the Gen II NA 3.1, but I can't argue with these other folks at all. I am convinced that there is no way to make decent power with these cars cheaply, and still have durability and dependability (i.e. to do it right). If you do it cheap, you will end up cutting corners that will burn you sooner or later. Even if you do alot of the work yourself, or you have "connections" there is still only so much cost savings.
Sharkey had some excellent points. I would say his assesment of how much it will cost to get about 180hp (hopefully a little more) out of an NA 3.1 Gen II is pretty damn accurate. It is actually a little low to be honest. You would have to take on some of the work yourself to get there. I already have about $2,000 into mine now, and that is just for the built and assembled short block. The engine kit (incl Silvolite hypereutectic .060" over pistons w/ coated skirts, Hastings ring set, Crane H272 cam, cam bearings, main bearing set, rod bearing set, full engine gasket set, timing set, Crane lifters, Melling hi-vol oil pump w/ screen, ARP rod bolts, and freeze plugs) alone was $812. Machine work (cylinder overbore and hone, resize connecting rods, install cam bearings, crank grind, degrease and magnuflux block, mill block, balance full rotating assembly, and assemble short block) was another $852. When you throw in a machined flywheel, tax, and freight, it gets up to over $1,900. That got me an assembled bullet-proof shortblock on my engine stand. Now I still need to get the heads and intakes done, and get my headers built. Along with various other misc. stuff I will creap closer to $3,500 when all is said and done. He's right, you've got to set a goal and stick to it. If you want to do it right, it will cost money. If you try to go cheap it will surely come back to haunt you. That's why I didn't "cheap out" on durability. Hell, my engine builder is giving me a 12 month warranty even though he knows the car will be drag raced, because he built it solid.
Don't get me wrong. I haven't given up on my goal of running 14.5 or better with an NA Gen II 3.1, and some may think I'm crazy for that. That's ok. Like Sharkey said, I set a goal, I didn't try to cut any corners for cost, and I'm going for it.
I am very anxious to get my top-end done, reassemble, and install the new motor to see what she will do. My wallet will be much lighter, I will have stuck to my plan, and I will enjoy the results. Then it will be time to set some new goals.
There is alot of wisdom on these boards. Even if you don't always agree with all of it (I sure don't all the time), listen and learn. And calm down, life is too short, and this information is provided for free. The folks who share their wisdom don't have to, so thank you to those who do. Some of us appreciate learning from what has, and has not worked before!
'93 Sunbird SE 3.1 5-speed
'00 Grand Prix GTP Sedan
sunbird93racer@yahoo.com
is this the same "nuse" thats really annoying over on v6z24?
you need to start listening to people here. don't ask opinions and questions and not listen and doubt people who have been through the ropes. if your going to doubt and call names/accuse then don't bother posting...
if your not the same guy over on the v6 sorry to be rude and you still need to step back and listen.
**changes are here**
ryan yea same guy...
watch for flying sparks!!!
