got the chance to get a 3800 sc out of a 93 boniville i get the engine / harness / ecm for 200 think this is a good deal and is this a good ecm to use for tuning

well i can get htis for 200 bucks and i was wondering if it would bolt up and work with (temp) the stock 5speed tranny thats in my j now (93 2.2 ) thanx

not even close. a 3800 swap requires custom mounts, a custom flywheel, custom exaust downpipe. you will also need to make your own wiring harness by intigrating the 3800 wiring with the stock wiring. even if you got all that done, the isuzu 5 speed (stock 2.2 tranny) would strip 2nd gear out of it the first time you get hard on the throttle in 2nd.

i knew it needed the mounts and the flywheel...... i think its the one from a 3400 camaro manuel but it has to b milled right .... and i know that the issusu wont hold when driving it hard... what i was asking is if it would work as a temp untill i get the time and cash to do the getrag muncy swap ....... also i was wondering it the 93 ecm was the best one to use or if i should plan on geting another one ........ but thanx for all the info

oh and if i had all the wiring from the donor car y would i have to splice the harness (couldent i just use the harness from the donor)

there never was a 3400 in a camaro (theye was an iron head 3.4l though). im guessing you meant a camaro 3800 flywheel, in wich case you can mill it down.

i couldnt tell you if the 3800 s/c ecm can be tuned or whats avalible for it. the issue you will have with the wiring is the j-body uses an engine bay harness that plugs into the dash, and you have a seperate headlight harness. the 3800 harness will be one peice, and you will have to wire it into the dash yourself as the plugs will be different. you would also have to remove the wiper/heater wiring from the j-body harness and work it into the 3800 harness. personally with something like this i would run a stand alone computer like a megasquirt and build my own engine bay harness. its a lot cleaner and the stand alone will allow you to fully tune everything with easy, instead of having to buy a chip burner, and software, and chips, and figure out complex software. you would also be able to tune in real time, aposed to burning chips were you have to make changes, burn a chip, install it then drive it, make more changes, reburn, ect. you can tune in real time with a moats ostrich (its an all in one eeprom burner, eraser, emulator), but last time i checked they were $300.

You can find a wiring harness for the swap at http://www.fuelinjection.com/ . I think it will run around 1000 for the all of the electronics needed to complete the swap.

ok i see

so nothing to major just timeconsuming also i thought that megasquert was like 1500 or something like that ......... in that case wouldnt it b cheeper just to get the all in one emulator you were talking about

ill have to look into the harners from that link but im running late to work right now so ,,,,,


thatx agen

my megasquirt 2 (unassembled), stimulator and rel;ay board was $480 after shipping. you can buy a prebuilt megasquirt for $400. once it was all said and done, i had a megasquirt in my car for around $550 (including misc things i needed and upgraded) a costly thing on top of the megasquirt is the highly recomended wideband o2 sensor and controller, however if your going ot tune a boosted motor, no matter what computer you use, id would highly recomend a wideband setup.

oh i see .... wonder what i saw that was so much more ..........................still debating on getting the engine though ......just gota find a tranny that will hold that engine (5 speed)

Actually that swap might not be as hard as everyone is saying. I believe the bellhousing is the same for the 3800 and the 2.2 OHV. So why would you need custom anything there? As for the mounts - you might be able to use the mounts off of a Oldsmobile Cutlas Ciera that came with a 3300. I actually have a 88 Olds Cutlas Ciera with an older style 3.8(same displacement but completely different engine than the 3800). Those 3300 mounts(once I find them) can be used in my car to drop in a L67(series 2 3800 S/C) into it with little trouble.

The Olds Cutlas Ciera is a FWD car that has has such engines as - 2.5L OHV(4Cyl aka Iron Dike), 2.2OHV, 2.8L OHV, 3.1L OHV. They weigh basically the same as J-bodies too. I suspect that the mounts from the 3300 engines that appeared from 1989-1993 would also allow direct fitament of a 3800 engine in a J-body. Yes, you will still need to do the usual stuff like swapping ECMs and having a new downpipe made(but you'd want a larger than stock downpipe on a performance car anyways), but really that is pretty painless IMO. In my case, I might not even need to change exhaust(depending), but I'm still eventually going to for "performance reasons"(supercharger off, really large ball-bearing turbo on).

sharkey wrote:you will also need to make your own wiring harness by intigrating the 3800 wiring with the stock wiring.

Since you're using a completely different ECU, I don't know why in the hell you'd need to splice the factory wiring in with the new wiring from the 3800 - except maybe for the purpose of the gauge cluster. I'm not really so sure that they'd even be compatable but I could be wrong - either way you're free to use aftermarket gauge clusters. You could even let that wait - because really you can live without your gauges - lol I know.

For tuning that ECM(it is OBD2) - you can use HP tuners software. No you can't "chip" anything OBD2 but HP Tuners is an even better option anyways.

sk843143 wrote:oh i see .... wonder what i saw that was so much more ..........................still debating on getting the engine though ......just gota find a tranny that will hold that engine (5 speed)

I'd get the engine - if it runs at $200 it is a steal. I thought I was lucky to find one for only $500 lol. I just realized that was a 93 model - so it would be a 3800 Series 1 engine - see if you can't find the more powerful series 2 engine instead if possible.

Need a transmission that can hold that engine? How about the transmission already on the engine - those 4 speed autos came that with L67s have a few tougher than regular parts on them. Very good transmission - it will hold up fine. It should swap in pretty easy too I do believe. Just grab the mounts for it off of the car you're getting it from.




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

a cutlass ciera is an A-body. they have a complete subframe that the motor bolts to. it is in no way like a j-body. a grand am with 3300 mounts the same way as a j-body, you could use those mounts. trust me, ive done re/re on a lot of older gm frd stuff, especialy with the 440t4 and 4t60e. i find it funny that you beleive they are a good tranny, those things are horrible.

the reason you have to splice the harnesses toigether is the j-body brings its gauge senders, starter, ignition, ect wiring through the drivers side and ecm functions through the passenger side. the passenger side wiring passes through the firwall and hooks to the ecm and has another plug to send tach signal and other gauge cluster wiring over to the cluster. also the j-body have all the heater and wiper wiring in the main harness. it is far from a plug and play swap as far as wiring goes.

as for a tranny, if he wants a 5 speed, thats the best route to go. fitting a 440t4 or 4t60e in a j-body is no small task. as i stated, you need to machine a flywheel from a 3800 camaro to work with the fwd tranny.

this is no simple plug and play swap. there also is the issue if your using a stock 93 ecm with a 5 speed to keep it out of limp mode. the 4t60e that is behind the motor in 93 is fully electronic, and if the ecm doesnt detect that its there, it will go into limp mode.

That is a good price, i paid around 1200 shipped. You can get thing you want for that motor from Intense Racing... Check out my swap.. i used just about everything from the buick centry 3300 motor except the Oil Sending unit.
http://jpc-computers.com
I am going to try and tune the ECM to control the motor, the only problem I have is the MAP sensor. I didn't have to change my wire harness since I had a 2.8 ECM, yours should not be a huge deal to do if you use the early model ECM and harness. If i can get my 3300 ECM to control my mameth I will let you know.. I am positive the early OBD1 ECM from a 3800 N/A can be tuned to work. It would be better to use the stock PCM and wiring from the original car if you ccan....Now i did have a handy pipe bender and had to weld a lot.. But i did a custom true dual setup tho..
I have 2 sound clips on the Main page, but they are 9mb each so you have to give it a min to load or just right click and save it. You need good speakers to get the depth of the ehaust



3800 SII S/C Swap <In Progress>
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<img border="0" src="http://jpc-computers.com/3800z24/inprogress/EngineIn5_small.JPG" xthumbnail-orig-image="inprogress/EngineIn5.JPG" width="100" height="74"></a>

The ecm is OBDI. OBDII began in '96.

Tunercat sells software tools to work with this ecm. Tunerpro might offer them for free.

The emulator is a box which pretends it's the chip. You remove the chip and plug in the emulator, then use a laptop to make changes inside the emulator while the vehicle is running. When your done you can have someone else burn a new chip from the file you've made, install it in the factory 3800 ecm, and have a stock engine controller which can be replaced for $200 or less if something happens. And if you keep the engine close to stock and use the ecm which came with it there shouldn't be too much tuning to do.

http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html

Supported ECMs:

$5B4 16141470 92 - 93 Buick / Pontiac L67, 3800, Supercharged

Tunercat is about $80, definition file is about another $25, and emulator could be as cheap as $200. Plus the emulator can be sold when you're done tuning.

I use junkyard harnesses for my swaps. I get the pinouts for the vehicles involved and start moving wires as necessary. It's more work, but it's also less money and guaranteed quality. If you are afraid to do wiring, and we're not talking about a few crimp cpnnectors like a half arsed stereo install, you're going to be paying someone else a fair amount of cash to do it for you. I'd get the harness with the engine and practice with it.

hth

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