When replacing the oil pan gasket for the 2.0L OHV, all the literature I've seen say to put RTV on the "ears" of the rear oil pan seal and press it into place. OK, I get that. Is that rear oil pan seal supposed to see RTV anywhere else, such as between the pan and the seal? Thanks.

Shouldn't need it. Just at the ends.

James Cahill wrote:Shouldn't need it. Just at the ends.

Belated thanks for your response. I was hoping to get another look under there this past week before I replied, but it didn't happen.

I had an '88 cavalier years ago that I recall doing this repair on, with RTV just on the seal ears, and didn't have a problem.

This '89 cavalier had a leak at the rear oil pan seal, and I repaired it the same way. The leak continued. I then remembered/realized that a failing TCC had made the engine buck violently, and that might have caused the oil pan seal at the rear to be compromised. (The TCC solenoid had since been disconnected). So I did this repair again, did not see any leaks for a bit, but now it is leaking again. A couple of more questions...

1) Off chance this is a rear main oil seal issue?

2) Would it hurt anything if this job was redone, and I used RTV between pan and the rear oil pan seal?

I guess I have to consider whether the oil pan itself is deformed. Perhaps if/when I re-do this job I will have a new one on hand for comparison and possible use.

I allways use RTV on all gaskets , cause all GM motors leak.

Had a 2000 2.2 S10 that had that problem, was the rear oil pan lip that leaked. Cleaned it real good ( on the car ) and put some RTV on the lip and it slowed it down alot.

Since you can take it all apart , I would do it again.

Use that Permatex Ultra RTV and let it dry for 24 ( more if cold outside), Clean the pan and surface with brake cleaner good first.............

2 piece rear main seal or 1 piece? ( trans has to be removed for 1 piece)


Doug in P.R.


92 Pontiac Sunbird LE, 2.0, AT, Red / Black with Grey 155K miles. Hurricane Maria Survivor ! ( It takes a licking and keeps on ticking ! ).....in Salinas, Puerto Rico!

92Sunbird PuertoRico wrote:I allways use RTV on all gaskets , cause all GM motors leak.

I had an '88 cavalier (same exact car as this '89) that I was able to keep leak free.

I currently maintain a Saturn that, to my knowledge, is also leak-free.

92Sunbird PuertoRico wrote:Had a 2000 2.2 S10 that had that problem, was the rear oil pan lip that leaked. Cleaned it real good ( on the car ) and put some RTV on the lip and it slowed it down alot.

Properly done, this should be leak-free

92Sunbird PuertoRico wrote:Use that Permatex Ultra RTV and let it dry for 24 ( more if cold outside), Clean the pan and surface with brake cleaner good first.............

The surfaces were properly prepped, the pan properly installed, and the Permatex ultra black was allowed to cure for a couple of days. This is why I am annoyed and perplexed that is leaking.

92Sunbird PuertoRico wrote:2 piece rear main seal or 1 piece? ( trans has to be removed for 1 piece)

If it is rear main seal, then yes, the trans will have to be removed, and that ain't going to happen.

Even though your engine is a touch newer than mine it should be the same deal.The two things I did is the pan was super stupid clean and along with the mating surface on the block.The problem with the 1.8 and 2.0 is they tend to leak either at the trans end where the pan bolts up or the crankshaft end.Now to keep this simple I used solely the gaskets for the side of the pan and the 1 rubber seal at the trans end.I DID NOT use any gasket on the crankshaft end bc once the pan get's tightened down it squeeze's it out.The key for a leak free pan is I use permatex's The right stuff!!!! and apply a double bead on the crankshaft end and same at trans mount point.I then install the rubber seal onto the trans end .I run a bead on block (long ways) both sides then to the pan same.I double up the bead on the pan itself at the crank end and trans end.I then install the pan and hand tighten the bolts evenly left to right side until they all seat then a gentle tighten up for the final deal.I let my pan sit for 24hrs for a full cure in my shop as the temps to affect the cure time.Permatex's the right stuff is nothing short of great and while the ultra black or grey do a fine job I prefer the choice I made and leak freee.I am pretty tired and did try to keep this in order so it makes sense.

A belated thanks for your response.

Ron Love wrote:Even though your engine is a touch newer than mine it should be the same deal.The two things I did is the pan was super stupid clean and along with the mating surface on the block.

The pan and block surfaces were properly prepped.

Ron Love wrote:The problem with the 1.8 and 2.0 is they tend to leak either at the trans end where the pan bolts up or the crankshaft end.

I've done this job before on an '88 without issue.

I've done this now twice on this '89, and both times, there is a leak at the rear (trans end). As stated, the first time that leaked might well have been due to a sticking TCC solenoid in the trans, causing the engine to buck violently and possibly break the seal there. But I disconnected that solenoid to eliminate that problem, replaced the oil pan gasket again. The leak appeared to go away, but now appears to leak again. The leak might even be intermittent. There is no leakage anywhere else except at the "rear" of the oil pan.

Ron Love wrote:Now to keep this simple I used solely the gaskets for the side of the pan and the 1 rubber seal at the trans end.I DID NOT use any gasket on the crankshaft end bc once the pan get's tightened down it squeeze's it out.

As stated, I have done this job three times on two cars, and never had a leak at the front (crankshaft). The challenge with the oil pan gasket at the front is that there are no bolt holes where the pan dips down, so you have to make sure the gasket stays aligned there as you install.

Ron Love wrote:The key for a leak free pan is I use permatex's The right stuff!!!! and apply a double bead on the crankshaft end and same at trans mount point.I then install the rubber seal onto the trans end .I run a bead on block (long ways) both sides then to the pan same.I double up the bead on the pan itself at the crank end and trans end.I then install the pan and hand tighten the bolts evenly left to right side until they all seat then a gentle tighten up for the final deal.

I've used The Right Stuff before, and it works great The problem is that you only have five minutes to install the pan before it sets. That is a too fast for me. (The flip side of this is that the car can be used immediately after the job). Also, The Right Stuff works too well, in that if you ever need to remove the pan again, you will have to cut the seal completely around the pan before the pan will separate. It can be tricky to get a knife in there, all the way around the pan.

OK, so it appears here that you use RTV between the pan and the rear oil seal. That is what I wanted to know. I was hesitant to do that because the all instructions I've seen only call for RTV on the rear oil pan "ears", not between the pan and seal, and I thought there might be a definite reason for that.

As asked before, is there any way to make sure that this isn't a rear MAIN seal leak?

I think that, when the weather warms up, I might re-do this job, and use the Ultra Gray all the way around the pan, including the rear. I will also double check the pan for any kind of deformation at the rear, particularly at the bolt holes on either side of the rear.

The only thing that I can suggest is that if the leak continues after a pan gasket has been done and sealed as stated it might be the rear main leaking.Mine has not had that issue just the rubber seal between the trans to pan area which is really mild due to the old rubber failing at the pan area.If you do this again and use one good bead before you install the rubber seal then run one bead on top of the rubber seal and install the pan.Let it sit for at least 24 hrs before any cranking to cure it out.If it leaks again it could be the rear main but,that requires the trans to be dropped.If your not losing more than a qt between oil changes let it ride unless it is really making a mess.On recall I do not know any 1st gens that had the rear mains leaking in general.But with the age of our cars it could be time to tackle that if it leaks enough where you see the loss on the oil checks regularly.

Ron Love wrote:The only thing that I can suggest is that if the leak continues after a pan gasket has been done and sealed as stated it might be the rear main leaking.... If you do this again and use one good bead before you install the rubber seal then run one bead on top of the rubber seal and install the pan.

I believe I will re-try this once again when it gets warmer, this time making sure to check the pan for deformation on either side of the rear oil pan seal, and then using plenty of RTV on that seal on install.

Ron Love wrote:Let it sit for at least 24 hrs before any cranking to cure it out..

This is a spare car, so I can let sit for days before I even put oil in it.

Ron Love wrote:If your not losing more than a qt between oil changes let it ride unless it is really making a mess..

It doesn't take much oil (a few drops of oil each time the car is parked) to start making a mess.

Sounds like a simple good plan.I would wait too as the cool temps kind of suck working outside in the winter.

Windshield Urethane is great for this problem ( stubborn leaks) but is messy if you get it on your hands. Great for tranny pans also. Can be found online or windshield installers.

Doug in P.R.


92 Pontiac Sunbird LE, 2.0, AT, Red / Black with Grey 155K miles. Hurricane Maria Survivor ! ( It takes a licking and keeps on ticking ! ).....in Salinas, Puerto Rico!