ok, so after working on this for what seems like forever, i've finally got all the fittings and all that jazz. install went perfect, everything lines up well. my problem is a soft pedal.
im using 24" stainless lines, so i bled the rear disc calipers for a while, and a lot of air came out. basically, open, push, hold, close, let up, and do it all over again. but now, i've spent about two hours bleeding, and the pedal is still super soft. with the car on and running, i need to push the pedal all the way to the floor to get it to do something. i dont know if there's air anywhere, because we've been getting pure fluid for a while. i even pumped each of the fronts a few times to no avail. every few times i top off the reservoir, and i've used about half a liter so far. no matter what i do, the fluid comes out with no bubbles anymore, and its still soft as hell. i've been doing this for two hours.
any hints?
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
try bleeding your abs unit, how long did you have your brake lines exsposed to open air?
Also try pumping up the pedal to pressure, then with your foot on the pedal have someone open up the bleeder valve and follow the fluid out with your foot on the pedal. then close the valve and start over.
lines were exposed to air for like a minute while i switched lines. how do i bleed the abs unit? i took another hour and a half today, and the @!#$ is still soft and falls to the floor. i really dont know what else to do, its a weird ass problem.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Same way as you would doing the brakes I believe...
but theres no valves.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
ok, so i spent another 2 hours or so bleeding. and everytime, more and more bubbles come out. HOW THE @!#$ ARE THE BUBBLES GETTING IN?!?!!? if bubbles are coming in, then that means that the huge amount of pressure that comes when pressing the brake, brake fluid would leak out. but there are no drips on my garage floor.
for example, if i push down and then come up and do it repeatedly close together, i get less bubbles (obviously i close and open the valve at the right time). yet, if i let it come up, rest for a second, and then go back at it, i get more bubbles out of the bleeder. w t f .........
i've cycled about 2-3 quarts of brake fluid by now.....
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
You have bubbles in your master cly. You need to bleed your master cly.
cant find any nipples on the MC nor the ABS.
so an hour later, i think i've narrowed it down to driver rear only, no matter what i do, pump slow or pump fast, air bubbles still come out mixed w/ the fluid.
sigh.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
bad caliper seal? I believe the calipers have a pressure seal that could possibly allow air into the bore.I hate to admit this but when I first did the swap I put the calipers on upsaide down or basically the left on the right and vise versa on the other side. This put the bleeder valve under the fluid inlet and I could never get the air out. just a thought...like I said I hate to admit that but it did happen at first. so check yours
^ heh.. definitely make sure the bleeder is at the top of the caliper... bottom is bad
I had bubbles coming in the SIDE of the hose between the bleeder valve and hose.... so there was no air in the lines, just air coming in when I bled them... that might be where some of the air is coming from.
Aside from that.... no idea, sorry man....
I have to go with the MC for $200
use the MC fitting like you would the bleeder screws start with the front two, then do the back two
after you do the MC you may have to do the lines again for anything that might have gone in the line while doing the MC.
It all worked before you put the neon rear calipers on right? So it most likely has to do with a bad caliper. Check the slides on the rear calipers and make sure that they are not stuck. You may have a stuck slide, simple as that. That would give you some brakes but a spongey feel to it.
I had the exact same problem with my car when I first did the swap, the problem was the caliper seals, if your using used calipers those are probably the culprit if you've narrowed it down to the driver side one then replace that one if its not new, my brake pedal has pretty much the same travel as it did when I had drums on the car
seanski wrote:my brake pedal has pretty much the same travel as it did when I had drums on the car
really??? My brake pedal is seriously responsive after the swap, not sensitive, but responsive. I'd say 1/8th depression before bracking force is applied vs. stock at about 3/4 inch or so. Sorry viper dont mean to thread jack.....hows the brake bleeding going?
Joshua Dearman wrote:seanski wrote:my brake pedal has pretty much the same travel as it did when I had drums on the car
really??? My brake pedal is seriously responsive after the swap, not sensitive, but responsive. I'd say 1/8th depression before bracking force is applied vs. stock at about 3/4 inch or so. Sorry viper dont mean to thread jack.....hows the brake bleeding going?
you can feel it start to grab earlier in the back and it stops way better but for the same stopping distance its about the same travel, its really weird but you can feel that the car just wants to come to a screeching halt when you romp on the brakes, so much different then my 91 sunbird daily driver
Ok, my buddy's having the same problem, he's got the neon conversion, and we've replaced the master cylinder, but he gets no air bubbles... you'll drive around and the pedal will be ok somtimes, then other it goes to the floor, and the brakes apply at the end of the travel... fronts grab/lock before the rears do anything... theres 2 bran new calipers on the back, and 1 caliper up front thats bran new, and the others a year old.
no leaks, nothing... no air all the lines are bled, were both getting fed up with this blasted thing... replaced the master cylinder, ABS pack, everything.... not the booster, or booster check valve...
1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd
A guy wrote to me about this maybe a month ago. He had the calipers on the wrong sides. The bleeder screw needs to be at the top of the caliper in order to bleed properly. I'm not sure if thats you're problem or not, but thats what his was.
John Lenko wrote:heh.. definitely make sure the bleeder is at the top of the caliper... bottom is bad
Damn, my Camaro Calipers have the bleeders at the bottom.....
must have put them on the wrong side..... Maybe I'll fix this when I get braided lines.....
I had this same issue, spongy/soft pedal...... it went away after a couple days of driving....... just had to depress the pedal half way, then up, then all the way for it to stop good...... but just for that first day or so.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
i did not know that neons had a 5 on 100 bolt pattern... sry about the semi hread jack.
If you keep having problems rent an air pressure bleeder.
I set up the brakes on my buddies 68 mustang, and did a hurst line lock. Kept getting a soft pedal. Finally rented a pressure bleeder. found a leak at one caliper, and on one line on the line locker.
Definitely did the trick. And makes it really easy to bleed the brakes. Best 14 dollars i ever spent.
Hmm.....^^that gives me an idea. Check to see if the flare you put on the factory lines have a crack in them. Somethimes if you get too much meat on the flaring tool it will spread the metal so far that it cracks, if you have a crack I could see how it would allow air into the line. Also, did you put teflon tape on both of the pipe fitting threads that are going into the wilwood valve?
