recently i've spun a bearing in my 2.2, and planned on rebuilding the motor, but i'm getting a 96 olds ciera for free that has a 3100 in it. i know the mounts are way different, but i was wondering if it was still the same motor as one with j body style mounts/locations (lower dogbone, upper frame rail mount). i've been looking all over and cannot find any info on whether or not it is and i cannot find any pics of the side of the motor where the mount should be for a j so i can compare them to the one in the ciera. can someone help me out with some info? anyone know if there are bolt holes or bosses in the locations i need? i'd much rather use the j locations than try to make the a-body mounts work. it seems i might be treading new ground, since it doesn't look like anyone has done this.

also, i do believe it has a 4t60e in it...and nowhere can i find any certain info on whether or not these have ever been put into a j. i've read you can use some internals, but i'd rather fab some mounts or something to get the stronger tranny in there since mine's a 3sp. can this also be done, or is it even practical? what about the axles and whatnot? any ideas or suggestions?

either way, the plan is to get this motor in there....i'll post with updates and probably pics as soon as i get the car here and start swapping.





Understand That Only Dying Is This Colossal - Protest the Hero

I'd be highly surprised if the timing cover wasn't the same on that as the GA, Corsica, Achieva, etc., which will all accept the same mount that fits into the J-body bracket. However, if you can get a picture of it, I can tell you for sure. If by some strange chance it's not the same, I have a cover I'd sell if you need it. As long as it has a single tension pulley just above and to the left of the crank pulley, it's probably the same.

There were variations on the V6's that could affect the amount of work needing done to do the swap. But it'll still swap.

I used a 99 GA engine, and it was pretty much drop in.

hey quiklilcav... got a pic of what the timing cover is supposed to look like? maybe with the mount on also? (need to know, since i'm gonna fab up some parts) i'll get some pics as soon as i can so you can confirm this for me. thanks for the info guys.





Understand That Only Dying Is This Colossal - Protest the Hero

I'll see if I can dig out the timing cover and take a picture, but if you read the sticky, you'll see both the timing cover, and the mount. The only thing I don't have a good picture of is the "Y" bracket that goes on it.

well i got some pics...

the motor -



the bad attempts at pics of the timing cover (best i could do since the motor is still in the car) -





more soon





Understand That Only Dying Is This Colossal - Protest the Hero

That's the belt routing that will use the GA upper mount. You need the "Y" bracket that bolts to the timing cover, and you need to get longer bolts for the holes that line up with it (you're going to take out like 5 of the bolts that hold your timing cover on, and bolt the "Y" bracket through those, so you need the extra length to account for the thickness of the "Y" bracket).

When you first get the bracket, you're going to look at it and wonder how it's not going to hit the accessories, but it fits right in there nicely. You'll also need to take the little plastic piece off the top of the water pump that goes over the belt. It will interfere with the mount.

the lower front mount you have - mounts to the sides of the block and not the pan, you could modify that for your lower dogbone set up. option two, use your existing mount- weld on a new frame mount where the dog bone would normally be. Also Brace the radiator support and use the upper enginge strut mount too.
IMO for older j's i think it is easier to piggyback the 2 pcms, let the donor run the engine and trans, j-body pcm for the gauges. you will need to route a few extra wires from the j to the donor for the a/c to work right.
Any swap is possible!!!! just takes time and or $$$$$

My current swap is a 3800SC into a 97 Oldsmobile Silhoutte van-- AARRRRR what a sleeper!!

Quote:


My current swap is a 3800SC into a 97 Oldsmobile Silhoutte van-- AARRRRR what a sleeper!

ROFL!!! I wan't vids of this when it's done. That sounds kickass.

great info guys, thanks keep it coming...

also, i haven't been able to find any of them 'y' brackets anywhere online, and from what i know the nearest salvage/junk yard is hrs away. so if anyone has ANY info on them, measurements, pics, etc so i can just make one please let me know!!

or if someone on the off chance has one laying around and would like to get rid of it...let me know.

i'm probably gonna do the piggyback method, except i'm not sure how i'll get it to run the original transmission. anyone know anything about trying a 4t60e swap? pros/cons?





Understand That Only Dying Is This Colossal - Protest the Hero

I ended up buying my "Y" bracket new at the dealer. IIRC, it was about $50. It's not something that will be easy to make. It's a very thick cast piece. I'll see if I can find the part number for it. I have a pile of receipts somewhere from all of the parts I have purchased during the swap.

If you do the "y" bracket- don't forget to raise the frame mount 1" or see 'kardain's' last post on the v6 swap i the 'sticky' section- he may make one for you if you ask real nice!!

hey quicklilcav...ever find that part number? i'm also interested in that machined alum. bracket. let me know.







At Your Feet You Find Your Place In Hell, This Is My Retribution - The Autumn Offering

OK, I couldn't find the reciept with the part number on it, but I got what I believe to be it directly off the part (GM is good enough to cast their part numbers into most items). Double check with your local dealer before ordering it anywhere (they can pull the picture up with the part number), but it should be 24504704.

While I was jacking up the motor to get the number off of the bracket, I snapped some shots with the new style mount in place. I figured I'd post them up so people can get a good idea of how these mounts really fit.











Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, June 07, 2008 12:13 PM

the ciera is here, but photobucket doesn't want to let me upload pics...eventually i'll post some info on issues and other things as i run into them...right now i'm just tearing the donor apart. anybody need any 96 ciera parts? my garage will soon be full of them.





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

aside from a bunch of rust and an unknown battery drain problem i guess you could say there is nothing wrong with the car.





what's neat is this fan in front here....i was reading up and seen that it was suggested to grab the dual fans from a grand am or whatever....but this extra fan will work nicely.


more 'less useless' pics will soon be up, ones with motor and swapping.





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

This is going in a Sunfire?

Sweet, we need more 3x00 swapped sunfires.

SHOoff wrote:This is going in a Sunfire?

Sweet, we need more 3x00 swapped sunfires.

a little bit of sarcasm? or is this true? i've never really noticed if the cars were cavs or fires when i was looking at v6 swaps since i've been too interested in the motor.

anyways, motor is almost out. it would probably be out already but i've been labeling all the plugs on the harness (think meticulous as-hole) and breaking sockets. 13mm is a vital socket...spent half a day looking for my extra socket and ended up using 1/2 inch....works, but it's a tight fit. also spent about two hrs just trying to get the exhaust off....well one bolt out....half inch of thread, 1/8 turn at a time, with a wrench. on, turn, off, swear. and one and two and three. one of them things that kind of makes you insane it's so tedious and repetitive. every try fighting yourself in your head because you can't stop counting every step you take while walking? that's why i ride a bike. yeah off topic i know. i hate tedious @!#$.





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

I think Kardain is the only one with a Sunfire. The rest of us all have cav's.

Once you get down to the J. The actual swap itself will go pretty quick. Then you'll get to the wiring, which will take you a few days at least when you're putting good time into it.

After it's running, you'll probably just drive around with an erection.

SHOoff wrote:
After it's running, you'll probably just drive around with an erection.

yeah i thought so.....i'll be sure to bring the lube...err...5w30....in case i need to top up.





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

@!#$....gotta love lame drunk jokes. sorry guys for my senseless humor.

since i'm posting...motor will be out today right after i clean up all the 2.2 motor parts off of my workbench and my general working area (started porting the 2.2 head, then didn't finish and moved on to getting all the rust off of the 2.2 block, didn't finish either).

after the 2.2 parts are thrown in a hole i'm gonna start cleaning up all the 3100 parts...definite LIM gasket failure on it, so it's a good thing i planned on getting a head gasket set anyways. i'll try and get some pics of the 3100 all nice and clean.





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

motor finally out



and, motor finally in.







Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

what torque converter have you guys used? the original 4 cyl one or the one for the v6?





Look Around You, The World Is Caving In, Victim Of Life, The Antihero - God Forbid

EvIllf1r3 wrote:what torque converter have you guys used? the original 4 cyl one or the one for the v6?

No torque converters here, 2.2 flywheel and clutch.

Not sure on that, but it's a safe bet to use the 2.2 converter, as it will match the input of the tranny.

^^ And it'll likely have a bit higher stall speed to it. Which might come in handy for your launches.