Hey fellow J-Body owners. This is my first post here. I have been reading around the forums for the past 3 weeks and finally ran into a question that wasn't answered clearly.

When I found this forum I was searching for the answer to a simple question: "Can a 3100 be swapped into a 1996 Cavalier without major mods?" And found my answer... and from there found many other answers. Such as the obstacles I will run into. (Mounting options)

I think I will also use this thread to post my work-in-progress so that I can receive feedback. I'm 19 with little to no experience when it comes to taking apart an engine, putting it back together and placing it into a whole other body. This was my first car and now that I purchased a new one... (oh yeah, no cosigner... I'm quite proud of my 2007 Dodge Caliber SXT) Anyway... The point is I don't want to throw away a vehicle my Dad gave to me. Instead, I will turn it into a project. Now he is also a car guy... but has this 700+hp V8 etc... etc.. Not what I plan on doing.

The item on my to-do list right now is to get the block to a machine shop. There're a few locals... and when I told them what I was doing they thought I was crazy. Heh... we'll see... I need to know exactly how far can you bore the 3100 SFI? This engine I took out of a 1995 Monte Carlo three weeks ago and stripped it down two days ago. Whoever had this car... cracked and chipped a piston which locked the motor up. Other than that it's in perfect condition. The entire car was sold to my dad for $500... excellent deal IMO. He's using the body for his dragster... I'm using the motor.

If you'd like to see the engine and where I am at right now, my pictures and progress are updated weekly on CarDomain. You'll see there that I started backwards... The car has rims and sound.... but yeah, all that's on hold until I get some more power under the hood.


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

You can't bore the 3100 very far, if at all. The 3400 is a bored 3100, however there is more block material for the 3400, which allows for the larger bore.

If you want real to get down to needing some real technical information about the engine, most of us here probably do not know the answer. So for some things you might want to ask over on 60degreev6.com.

welcome to the site and looks like you have done your research already but you may want to talk to gtpsunfire he is making the lower motor mount you will need and also where are you located?

mikieb510 wrote:welcome to the site and looks like you have done your research already but you may want to talk to gtpsunfire he is making the lower motor mount you will need and also where are you located?

I am located in Brooklet, GA. I did see the thread where gtpsunfire was saying we could purchase the mounts for... was it $60? I will PM him shortly about that.

SHOoff (Tuner Bash Beer God) wrote: You can't bore the 3100 very far, if at all. The 3400 is a bored 3100, however there is more block material for the 3400, which allows for the larger bore.

I noticed that there wasn't much room which is why I thought i'd ask some experts. What type of horsepower gain do you get if you decide to do a 3400 instead of the 3100. Either way... I still gain something from the ol' 2.2L

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

Here are a couple of recommendations:

Try to get yourself a 2000+ 3100/3400 top end. That will give you a big increase over what you have now.

If you want to build a 3x00 engine, get over to 60DegreeV6.com. There are some very knowledgeable guys over there who can guide you in the right direction. I would plan out what you want to do with the engine, and check out the cam specs they can grind. There are a ton of options.

Tom Williams wrote:I noticed that there wasn't much room which is why I thought i'd ask some experts. What type of horsepower gain do you get if you decide to do a 3400 instead of the 3100. Either way... I still gain something from the ol' 2.2L

Using the large port 3100 (the 2000 and newer which has the same top end as the 3400) the 3100 will consistantly dyno around 20hp less to the wheels than a 3400 in a perfect world. Expect 15-20hp less with the older 3100's.

So if you go with a 3100, make it more worth the time, and get the one that has the better heads.

Tom Williams wrote:...This engine I took out of a 1995 Monte Carlo three weeks ago and stripped it down two days ago...

SHOoff (Tuner Bash Beer God) wrote:So if you go with a 3100, make it more worth the time, and get the one that has the better heads.

He already has the older one.
Hence why I suggested doing the top end swap.

I understand I would get better performance using the newer 3100 top-end but due to my small budget, a 15hp to maybe 20hp gain isn't worth spending the near $200 they want at the junkyard. I think this engine will do fine. I don't plan on trying to race with it, I just want a better performance from a stock 2.2L. Not that i'm a ricer but I want a nice looking car with good performance. I'm not trying to make the fastest V6 Cavalier on the net. I mentioned before i'm 19 and don't really have a career with a nice income so i'm limited on what details I want to actually change.

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

Tom Williams wrote:I understand I would get better performance using the newer 3100 top-end but due to my small budget, a 15hp to maybe 20hp gain isn't worth spending the near $200 they want at the junkyard. I think this engine will do fine. I don't plan on trying to race with it, I just want a better performance from a stock 2.2L. Not that i'm a ricer but I want a nice looking car with good performance. I'm not trying to make the fastest V6 Cavalier on the net. I mentioned before i'm 19 and don't really have a career with a nice income so i'm limited on what details I want to actually change.

It's actually a substantial improvement. The small port 3100 (pre-2000) makes anywhere from 115 to 130HP, depending on it's form. I believe the one you have falls into the 125-130 range, but I'm not 100% on it. The large port (2000+) 3100 makes 175-185 HP, again, depending on the vehicle. At the closest numbers, you're looking at a 45HP gain, and that's assuming 100% stock engines. If you're doing anything to the engine aside from that, it makes a huge difference. Although, when building an engine, if you are on a tight budget, you might as well spend the money on the block work up front, and plan the upgrades later on. Better than taking $200 out of your budget for internals and spending it on the top end. It's always best to have the solid foundation to begin with.

i put an 01 3100 in my 97 grand prix it made a world of diffrence but the good parts about swapping even to a small port 3100 atleast you can upgrade later if you feel you need to

Just double checking... If I continue with the build and decide to upgrade the top-end later... That wouldn't require anything special, right? Should just be able to swap the two.

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

Quiklilcav wrote:

Tom Williams wrote:I understand I would get better performance using the newer 3100 top-end but due to my small budget, a 15hp to maybe 20hp gain isn't worth spending the near $200 they want at the junkyard. I think this engine will do fine. I don't plan on trying to race with it, I just want a better performance from a stock 2.2L. Not that i'm a ricer but I want a nice looking car with good performance. I'm not trying to make the fastest V6 Cavalier on the net. I mentioned before i'm 19 and don't really have a career with a nice income so i'm limited on what details I want to actually change.

It's actually a substantial improvement. The small port 3100 (pre-2000) makes anywhere from 115 to 130HP, depending on it's form. I believe the one you have falls into the 125-130 range, but I'm not 100% on it. The large port (2000+) 3100 makes 175-185 HP, again, depending on the vehicle. At the closest numbers, you're looking at a 45HP gain, and that's assuming 100% stock engines. If you're doing anything to the engine aside from that, it makes a huge difference. Although, when building an engine, if you are on a tight budget, you might as well spend the money on the block work up front, and plan the upgrades later on. Better than taking $200 out of your budget for internals and spending it on the top end. It's always best to have the solid foundation to begin with.

actually a small port 3100 makes about 155hp-160hp, so using a large port 3100/3400 top end won't give you THAT much more power.

the 115-130 #s (it's actually 125-140 i believe) are for the gen2 2.8/3.1 motors, not the gen3 3100/3400 motors.


For more info on this, you should check out v6z24.com, tons of info on this kind of thing.

binghao feng wrote:

Quiklilcav wrote:

actually a small port 3100 makes about 155hp-160hp, so using a large port 3100/3400 top end won't give you THAT much more power.

the 115-130 #s (it's actually 125-140 i believe) are for the gen2 2.8/3.1 motors, not the gen3 3100/3400 motors.

Those are the numbers I found when I researched. My Cavalier has about 120 HP @ 5,200 rpm right now. Just the V6 alone gives me a good performance gain. According to my uncle, who rebuilds engines professionally... I should be able to get a great amount of HP after a few custom mods. I'm not sure what type of mods he was referring to but he said I can easily get around 300HP if I have some things custom. This is my first build, so he's my guide until I get some experience. I'm trying to not make too many mistakes. Which of course will happen, i'm human.

Like I mentioned before, i'm not trying to go all out and push this engine to the max. It will be a daily driver when completed (well, seasonal daily driver). I just want a bit of power under the hood. There're quite a few Cavaliers in my area and I have even noticed some with custom mods. A good number have body kits and seem to have performance parts but none have shown anything. I hate driving the gas saver all the time... (my vehicle now has a 1.8L engine ... of course built for fuel economy). Before I do all the body work I want it to not have a stock engine. So when they do see my Cavalier putting up a good show won't be too difficult. For some reason, being dubbed a "ricer" is very common unless you show something different under the hood.

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

Sorry about that last post... that didn't even show in the preview!

Anyway, ignore the "binghao feng wrote:"

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

haha well there's not a whole lot of aftermarket for these things, 3400 and 3100 i mean. There are some and if you go down the boost route 300hp is definitely possible.

mainly with the sp 3100 in there, a 3400 is just a drop in away, there aren't really lots of modifications to be made going from a sp 3100 to a 3400, other than tuning that is.

i got a sp 3100 swapped in for my 89 cav, yeah sure it was a bit of work for only 25 extra hp, but it was cheap and it's something i can play around and learn to tune the ecm with.

since you are getting this motor for basically next to nothing, drop it in and try it out; even if it doesn't work out it's no big deal. If it does you can always drop in a 3400 later

On the bright side, coming up this year I'll most likely install that 3500 top end that I have, since I didn't do it last year. So the 3400 top end (with exception of the UIM) will then go up for sale. Would make a good swap for the 3100 folks that need the large port top end.

SHOoff (Tuner Bash Beer God) wrote:On the bright side, coming up this year I'll most likely install that 3500 top end that I have, since I didn't do it last year. So the 3400 top end (with exception of the UIM) will then go up for sale. Would make a good swap for the 3100 folks that need the large port top end.

About how much would you sell it for?

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

Dunno, we'll worry about that when the time comes.

Well... since I can't seem to get time off of work and school to take the parts to the machine shop... I might as well ask you guys a few questions.

Anyone know if I will need to do anything special with the 2.2l wiring harness?

My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

slice splice splice

i stripped my 2.2 harness down, took off everything from the ecm plugs i didn't need, then loomed it in with the 3100 harness. what i kept was the abs wires, tranny wires, vss, accidentally took off the coolant level sensor plug...leave that on. ran into problems with my coolant temp sensor since the cts i have on the 3.1 is a 3 wire and they run under the intake mani, too much of a pita to get at and figure out which two wires i need for my dash. alot of the splicing you'll need to do will probably involve power wires and a few grounds. make sure everything is fused properly and switched correctly (hot in run/start, acc or whatever it needs) i also lengthened alot of sensor wires on the 3.1 harness so i can run both ecms under my dash. what will help you out ALOT (well it helped me) is getting a chilton's manual for both cars or getting wiring diagrams for both engines and chassis. i took alot of notes, rechecked them, rewrote them, and still ended up needing to change a few things in the end. if i can find the time, and you want them i can send you some of the notes, maybe they'll help you out. i also have diagrams for a lower mount, probably take you a half hour to make in a good metal fab shop. what was amazing is that i actually wired the car right my first try. good luck!

if you want, check out my thread '96 a-body info/swap'....maybe something there will help out.





Let Yourself Bleed If You Are To Let Blood; Brother, You Are In Error - Shai Hulud

I still have a new GM coolant tube, can be used to add a second coolant temp sensor - lots easier to braze when the parts are new. jb

Just dropped it off in pieces at the machine shop. Hopefully, after its cleaned I get some good news. We're still not sure how that piston got the way it was.


My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780

thats kinda funny i just dropped a block off ith a weird broken piston like somone hit it with a hammer and then put it back together and ran it but anyways the f-ckin cylinder was cracked i hope that isnt the case

Well... finally some news. The head was cracked and a piece made its way in to the path of the piston which turned into a mess. Luckily, after one phone call to another shop I found a head for $50 off another 3100 motor. And progress continues... while I'm waiting on the engine rebuild I decided to debadge and prep the body for painting in March.


My Cav: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2435780