Since we're on the topic of opinions lately anyway:
Someone wants to buy my subs and amp for way more than they're worth. Oviously I'm totally game. However, that leaves me with no bass and we can't have that. So, I'm going to start looking into something new and more towards what I really want. One of the things I loved about my old system was it's versatility. It hit pretty hard, but was also able to punch well and keep up with a fast beat. However, I want more of the latter. I want the punch to knock my teeth out. Although, at the same time I love to hit real hard on occasion and have that option available to me. With all that in mind I'm thinking about a 3 sub setup:
One 12" to lower the kaboom up to about 60 or 80Hz, and two 8's to pound out some awesome mid-bass, maybe even up to 150Hz, and give me a crazy punch and bass guitar.
Unfortunately, I've been out of the game wayyy too long and don't really have a clue anymore as to who's making decent amps that are going to last me, letalone decent subs. Furthermore I've NEVER looked into something like 8's before, so what are some brands I should be checking out?
I don't have much experience with quality 10's either, so maybe I should be looking at a more conventional dual 10" setup? I'm just worried that I won't be able to get as much deep bass out of them as I would like while still getting them to punch like a mofo.
Opinions, GO!
"In Oldskool we trust"
Should have also mentioned, I'll have about $800-$1000 to blow on this project.
"In Oldskool we trust"
You can actually get really really tight bass and get kinda low with the right small speakers. I had 2 8" w7's and they were ported hooked to a 1000/1. People would swear I had some kind of ridiculous huge set up when I played rap, but mostly I used it for Metal, and it sounded amazing and hit hard and very accurate. Just a suggestion.
.
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Though the W7 line may be a little out of my price range, I believe it. In a ported enclosure it's impressive what a small woofer can do. I'm just worried if I try to pull that off with a cheaper version, the punch wouldn't be there.
"In Oldskool we trust"
Dont do 3 subs first off. Its impossible to get a normal ohm load. Your loads with be in thirds. 1.33, 1.66, 2.33 etc etc. Dont mix sub sizes unless you can get ridiculously spot on with crossing over. Itll bring in cancellation. But at the same time sub bass is nondirectional. This is freq mainly below 60hz. So when you play a sub above that you will begin to notice its placement in the car as opposed to it sounding like its coming from in front of you which is ideal.
My opinion. dont rely on your sub for your midbass. Midbass should be played through a mid speaker. Subs arent really designed to play above 100 hz. Keep anything playing mid freq ahead of you.
As far as depth, size doesnt matter. Look at the Fs of the sub. Any reputable manufacturer will list it. The lower the Fs the lower the sub will play but it also wont play as high without getting muddy. It also will sound boomy. The cheap subs Ive owned have that issue since they have a high Fs. Boomy sounds and not much low end extension. This again is where the midbass comes in. For example, my sub has an Fs of 19hz. So for only seeing 300 watts it will get low. The only other way to get low is to use a larger enclosure or to apply more power to the sub and lower the Xover which can break stuff through over-excursion. I cross it low and allow the mids to pick up what it wont hit without sounding muddy.
If you want 8s for midbass they MUST be up front. The only difficulty you will have with this is that a lot of 8s arent designed probably to have voice going through them. So in a perfect world you should use an 8 in a 3 way setup. Which in turn opens another whole area of issues.
Just remember simplicity. The more drivers you add to a system the more chance you have for issues. Whether it be cancellation or poor integration and imaging.
/rant
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:09 PM
It's funny that you mention most of the same concerns I have. There's no way I'm going to start messing with 8's in the doors; the car just isn't worth it. Plus, getting a 3-way system time aligned is out of the question with the tools that I have. So I've pretty much reached a point where I can't advance unless I spend TONS of money and way too much time on the custom work. I'm still wondering if a nice pair of 10's won't make me happy enough. Maybe I shouldn't even sell the system I have and just be happy. haha.
The issue with the old system is that it's 1400W RMS and HUGE. I'd like to reclaim some trunk space and maybe get a little more punch out of everything; while possibly easing up on the alt a little. It's also possible that a single 12 in a good box could do what I want too
But all good points so far, keep it coming. I'm waiting for some other guys to chime in that I expect to hear from.
"In Oldskool we trust"
Like me, coming in to say that if you even THINK you know what time alignment is and how to use it, what a 3-way setup is, or what RMS even actually stands for, you should know better than trying to mix sub sizes and such. You want to keep things simple and get the most bang for your buck? Simple, nice, 6.5" component set with a good amp behind it, a high quality 10 or 12 or even a pair of 10's or 12's(not mixed, DUH), and a properly built enclosure. Sounds to me like a ported 12 of a higher quality and in a proper box might do you just fine. I'm curious what this "1400W RMS HUGE!" system was, if you don't mind sharing... you never gave brand or model names, so it makes me think you're embarrassed lol
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
Oh boy here we go!
Maybe a little embarassed, but I know that it sucked over 100 amps. hahaha. By the way, I've divulged the information before on here AND it's in my profile. Just sayin, detective.
Anyway, it was huge by my standards; maybe not yours. Most people run single boxes with a 150w woofer where I come from. Whereas I ran dual 12's at 700W RMS a piece and an 1800W RMS amp to supply them. Now I know because it's far from high quality equipment, it's likely to be a smaller number than what they boast, maybe even like 300 off. But I think we can all agree it's not baby-sized.
You're more than right about mixing sizes, I'm not sure what I was thinking. But on a serious note, do you think a ported application would give me what I'm looking for in terms of a sonic punch that can replace CPR maneuvers?
"In Oldskool we trust"
Oh yeah, and thanks for the "help."
"In Oldskool we trust"
haha maybe. with the right sub and tuning, you would be surprised how tight you can make a ported enclosure. hell, be safe and run a pair of beefy 10's sealed with gobs of power. Thinking about it... that might be your best bet, the way you talk.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
Seriously though, two quality 10's in a sealed box may be my best bet right? And I know it's not all about wattage so cut me some slack bro.
"In Oldskool we trust"
My friend hAs some beefy soundstream reference 10's in a sealed box. With an oldschool kenwood amp on em. From the inside it's nice and loud. Outside u can barely hear it when all the windows are up. It's dynomstted to hell! But I'd do something like that!
Yeah, I'm well aware that these numbers are likely to be way outside of what they actually are. So we're all in agreement that two quality 10's is the way to go here.
With that being said, I have no idea where to start with brands. I've been out of the game too long. Again, I have about 800-1000 to spend. Start throwing some brands out guys.
"In Oldskool we trust"
Jl w3v2's can be had cheap on forums, sundown makes some beffy subs, fi q's would get the job done, id10's are super surprising for their price, rainbow hammers, the list can go on...
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
A place to start, thank you. How about amps?
"In Oldskool we trust"
Some will tell you Im partial to Sundown amps.
Yeah I got that, haha. But hey, I'm down.
"In Oldskool we trust"
Sundown amps seem to get good reviews(though I bhavent used them). For amps, I like to get spendy lol. But on a budget, u might be able to get a pair of rainbow hammers in a box and a rainbow dm2000 to power them. That would be a killer sounding higher end sub setup, and might fit into ur budget(though I gotta make a phone call before I know for sure)
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
"You really need to staple your face shut"-THE Joey Baggs.
Take your time. Haven't even sold the old stuff yet...
"In Oldskool we trust"
Sundown Amps are tits. Amazing customer service to go with them!
go with sony and lightning audio. they're the best
I pray to rolling blading Jesus that that is a joke.
Andrey B wrote:go with sony and lightning audio. they're the best
Well duh, I thought everyone knew that was the best stuff out there.
"In Oldskool we trust"
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:Dont do 3 subs first off. Its impossible to get a normal ohm load. Your loads with be in thirds. 1.33, 1.66, 2.33 etc etc. Dont mix sub sizes unless you can get ridiculously spot on with crossing over. Itll bring in cancellation. But at the same time sub bass is nondirectional. This is freq mainly below 60hz. So when you play a sub above that you will begin to notice its placement in the car as opposed to it sounding like its coming from in front of you which is ideal.
My opinion. dont rely on your sub for your midbass. Midbass should be played through a mid speaker. Subs arent really designed to play above 100 hz. Keep anything playing mid freq ahead of you.
As far as depth, size doesnt matter. Look at the Fs of the sub. Any reputable manufacturer will list it. The lower the Fs the lower the sub will play but it also wont play as high without getting muddy. It also will sound boomy. The cheap subs Ive owned have that issue since they have a high Fs. Boomy sounds and not much low end extension. This again is where the midbass comes in. For example, my sub has an Fs of 19hz. So for only seeing 300 watts it will get low. The only other way to get low is to use a larger enclosure or to apply more power to the sub and lower the Xover which can break stuff through over-excursion. I cross it low and allow the mids to pick up what it wont hit without sounding muddy.
If you want 8s for midbass they MUST be up front. The only difficulty you will have with this is that a lot of 8s arent designed probably to have voice going through them. So in a perfect world you should use an 8 in a 3 way setup. Which in turn opens another whole area of issues.
Just remember simplicity. The more drivers you add to a system the more chance you have for issues. Whether it be cancellation or poor integration and imaging.
/rant
Actually... if you run 3 subs, two dual 4 ohm subs, one a dual 2 ohm sub, you can have a 2 ohm final impedence off of a monoblock
