Building my own turbo kit over the winter, plan to be done by spring next year and running. Just wondering what a quick spooling trim is? I read alot of different things about it, but can't really find any straight answers. What trim is good for quick spooling? thanks

on a straight T3 with a 0.48 turbine 60trim will be stated
on a straight t3 with a 0.63 turbine you will here 54-57 trim
on a t3/to4b 0.48 turbine likely a 57trim
on a t3/to4b 0.63 turbine likely 50trim (what I have and I would recommend)
on a t3/to4E 0.63 turbine 57trim

hoefully that gives you some insight. flame away if I made some mistakes, keep in mind that this doesn't take compressor A/r into effect.. on the T3 you will likely get around the 0.43 or 0.60 mark and on the to4b/to4E 0.50 a/r or 0.60 a/r are fairly common.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, October 27, 2006 2:57 PM

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keep in minf the trim has nothing to do with the turbine a/r, just the trim on the compressor


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

thanks for the info...thats about all I needed. I actually found some other stuff online while I was waiting for a response that helped me...thanks

Spool time is mainly effected by the turbine.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Skilz10179 wrote:Spool time is mainly effected by the turbine.

I would say that compressor plays a really large part too, I have had 3 turbo setups, and 4 different turbos, a nice straight T3 is a really good turbo for a low HP application..

You see t3 turbos with a 0.48 and a 0.43 compressor, or a t3/t4 0.48 turbine and to4e 0.60 57trim compressor, t3 with t4 compressor wheel will boost much quicker... but I don't know exactly how much each of a role each plays, both are very important and make sure you plan your turbo specs according to your 1)driving style 2)hp goals 3)the turbo COMPRESSOR map... those are 3 important things to think about.


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Compressor size does have some effect on spool time but not nearly as much the turbine, thats a fact.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

I Really respect you, and I know that you know exactly what you are talking about, both from experience and research. But I still think that compressor plays a much larger roll than some people give it credit for. I think the best spooling setup will be a properly tuned EMS, balanced turbine/compressor, and free flowing exhaust. Turbine does play a role for sure, but when taking spool into account, keep in mind a smaller a/r will really limit maximum hp, and increase backpressure (which is why it spools quicker)


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

In my personal experiance a 57 trim TO4E compressor spooled every bit as fast as my old Super 60 T3 compressor did, both using the same turbine.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

I was kinda thinking about that too.. lol, I had a super 60, and the t3/t04b 50trim that I have now, and I think they both spool around the 2800-3000 mark.. but the to4b compressor comes on so much harder... but that is likely due to the wastegate opening much further quicker reducing backpressure. Both turbos use the 0.63 turbine. The straight T3 also obviously had much more low pressure HP, and the t4 wheel more once pressures start increasing due to compressor map.


another thing I noticed.. is this is the first thread in history of JBO, that we haven't started quoting and saying "you dumb ass" or something like that... lots of good info and points in here, your experience will teach me things :cheers


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

sorry to post jack, but how would this turbo be for an eco application, as far as spooling, and max output??? I would like to run mid-low 13's at about 10 PSI max. It seems kind of small, but I'm still new to the boosting scene and appreciate any and all help.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 3rd quickest Ecotec on the .org - 10.949 @ 131.50 MPH!!!

WAY too small.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

ge_forcez22 wrote:WAY too small.

j-body.org
Quarter Mile Timeslip
US 131 Motorsports Park

12:27 PM
15/May/05

Owner: Jeff Filkins (kane5576)
Car: 2000 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24

R/T ... .8259
60' ... 2.0480
330 ... 5.5460
1/8 ... 8.4039
MPH ... 85.25
1000 ... 10.8939
1/4 ... 12.9880
MPH ... 107.68

BTW, this was on daily driven street tires.




- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Quote:

Garrett GT30R Dual BB Turbo
Spearco Intercooler 31" x 6" x 3"

and... those are completely different turbos... those are some good times, but don't reflect the turbo asked about, unless I am getting the wrong URL


-Compressor Trim: 50
Compressor Housing a/r: .42
Turbine Housing a/r: .48



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The time slip i posted was on a 50 trim T3 .48 a/r turbine. So it exactly reflect the turbo asked about, you're wrong. It was also done on a stock motor.

He went much faster on the GT30R.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Garrett GT30R - Dual Ball Bearing Garrett GT30R Turbo assembly with T3 style housing with T3 inlet flange w/ 4 bolt style exit. T04E style compressor housing with 2.75 - 3.00 inlet and 2.00" outlet. Very Good response turbo for 4 Cyl applications. This turbo has a flow capacity of about 500HP. This turbo would be the same as HKS GT3037. The GT30R turbine housings with 4 bolt exit are made out of ductile Ni-Resist iron (has a nickel content of about 38. This material is much better at withstanding high exhaust gas temperatures than regular cast iron. The turbine wheel is inconnel 713 and is good for up to 1700 degrees farenheit. The wheel can sustain longer operation at higher temperature but not for long periods of time. You'll make a hell of a lot more power with this turbo than most turbos comparable!!!

Turbine -Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim -Housing: .82 ar, 1.06 ar

Compressor -Wheel: 76.2mm w/ 56 trim -Housing: .60 ar


Item#:GRT-TBO-005MSRP:$1,350.00Our Price:$1,282.50

comes with either 0.842 or 1.06 turbine A/r


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

Ok but that GT30R has NOTHING to do with anything i posted......


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

oh ok, I just checked his profile, and that was the turbo listed. I was not wrong, but that is the info that was given. But those are some impressive numbers, doesn't change the fact the turbo is WAY to small. check out the compressor map, for the numbers he wants to make taking alitude, effiency, supporting mods and everything into play, he would be using 28-32 lbs/min... for that turbo to be effiencent at 10psi... 14-18 lbs.min. WAY TOO SMALL, might make some good numbers which really shocks me.


according to Garrett that turbo would be spinning Well past 163,000 rpm to push that pressure and ammount of air.


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I'm not going to say that is the best compressor to use but to run mid 13's on a 2.4 it is proven to be more than enough.

Just because a compressor is out of it's peak effiency zone does not mean its not working any more. Looking at the compressor map for that turbo, for it to flow 30 lbs.min. at 14psi (which is the psi Jeff ran his 12.9 at) it puts it at about 60% effiency at the top of his rpm range. For the most part of the rpm range that compressor would be right in it's peak effiency zone at 14psi. 60% effiency is really not even that bad if you want to compare it to the average root supercharger effiency which it usually only about 50%.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

yah the numbers are really good, but what about reliablity, something over spinning that bad might get 10k miles... (thats about what I got, but had spool around 1800rpm) I have never seen that much smoke and weird ass whinning noises. not to mention the brass shavings in the intercooler drown in oil, lol...

We will both openly admit the most poorly planned turbocharger is going to be more effiecent than most roots chargers.But I think it would be a much better idea to get something that would have a much larger or large trim compressor. On my 2.4 I have had 1)T3 super 60 2) t3 54trim compressor 3)t3/to4b (now) and the 54trim would be wicked and I mean WICKED fast for auto-X, was twin ball bearing and just a total riot to drive, but the power really died off in 4th and 5th, and it was almost impossible to stay outta boost, driving the car noramlly was totally gone. Highway driving at 75-80 mph was almost in boost, and that got old really quick.

Compressor maps should line up very closely with the hp goals and driving style of the intended application. Just doing some quick approximate plotting, I don't think his engine would even be close to that effiecency island at any times. Something a little larger (not necassarily a/r) but trim wise would be benefitial. Running a turbo that low on effienecy in this case happens from over spinning the shaft, which wears things out really quickly, might as well by a cheap turbo that is properly sized and work it as it was designed to work, you might have better reliability (as long as the turbine housing glue holds )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRETT-T3-60-TRIM-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ020QQitemZ300040391221QQrdZ1

I have bought from that guy, and that is a wicked turbo for your setup, that compressor puts you right into the effiecency island, has amazing spool, and will be a great for a daily driver.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

What do you guys think of using a Turbonetics 60-1 on a built 2.4 with the 086 head, HO intake with W41 cams and HPT to tune?


2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.