Hi I have a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire with a Brand new motor. I have the following parts, Eagle H-Beam Connecting Rods, Wiesco 8.9 : 1 Compression Piston and Ring Set, I have an AEM Wideband O2 Gauge Kit, Oil Catch Tank, a T3/T4Turbo setup with Front Mount Intercooler and 42lb fuel injectors.
Getting HPTuners aswell when money comes in.
Ok first off I am hoping to run 17psi or maybe a little more and hoping to get parts good for
600 horse power or more know I will never hit that but it is always good to buy parts with a
higher horse power ratings than what will be ran.
Planning to hit near 350hp or 400hp ? ? ? ? ?
I have heard of cosmetic head gaskets and such and am wondering wiether or not I should
get one or stay with stock (daught it though) or what exactly should I get for one?
Also for connecting rod bearings is stock going to be ok or is there another kind I should get?
Also I am looking at 2 different kinds of head studs and they are eagle and apr? Also with my
motor is totally apart I noticed I have head bolts and not studs does this matter or is the aftermarket
studs the right ones and the way to go?
I was also thinking about changing the main bearing or crankshaft bearings aswell or is this
all good for what I want to run with hoping power range?
If anyone can give me a hand with this it would be great and if you want to take the time and
write where to get them that would be awsome aswell so I can get this done and be all
done for when spring time comes around.
Also for the brake in period would it be ok to just let the torbo boost vent into the air so there is less pressure on things when I first get it up and running and tune when everything is good or should I just start it all off at like 3 psi of boost so there is some there or what is your opinion on that aswell.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Hey guys need help asap need to get these parts asap so I can finish build when parents leave for vacation.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Ok first off I am hoping to run 17psi or maybe a little more and hoping to get parts good for
600 horse power or more know I will never hit that but it is always good to buy parts with a
higher horse power ratings than what will be ran.
Planning to hit near 350hp or 400hp ? ? ? ? ?
I'm really surprised no one has chimed in to help you out yet. I personally have never built an Eco as I have the LD9 but many aspects of engine building are universal so I'll try to help some.
Quote:
I have heard of cosmetic head gaskets and such and am wondering wiether or not I should
get one or stay with stock (daught it though) or what exactly should I get for one?
-Cometic head gaskets are great and would work excellent on your engine and yes you absolutely will need an aftermarket head gasket, a stock one will not hold the power you are looking for.
Quote:
Also for connecting rod bearings is stock going to be ok or is there another kind I should get?
-New Clevitte or federal mogul bearing would work great
Quote:
Also I am looking at 2 different kinds of head studs and they are eagle and apr? Also with my
motor is totally apart I noticed I have head bolts and not studs does this matter or is the aftermarket
studs the right ones and the way to go?
-I would go with ARP head studs, i've been building engines for years and ARP has never let me down, as far as the studs and bolt differences I have no idea, other Eco guys need to help ya out there.
Quote:
I was also thinking about changing the main bearing or crankshaft bearings aswell or is this
all good for what I want to run with hoping power range?
-New Clevitte or Federal mogul bearings
Quote:
Also for the brake in period would it be ok to just let the torbo boost vent into the air so there is less pressure on things when I first get it up and running and tune when everything is good or should I just start it all off at like 3 psi of boost so there is some there or what is your opinion on that aswell.
-With the set up you are going to be running you will want a good break in. I usually break an engine in for about 500 miles taking it very easy. As far as the boost goes you will want to have it turned down as far as possible, which on your set up with an externally gated Tial will not be 3psi. It will likely be more like 8-10psi. Just take it easy and you will be fine. Hope I helped out man, and good luck
"Horsepower is the Ultimate Accessory"
-No one makes replacement bearings for the Ecotec. Get new OEM GM ones. That's what I'm runnning and they've always looked great, even with my abuse.
-Cometic FTW. Never had a problem with mine although some people on here will tell you they KNOW OF SOMEONE who's had issues with it but they are not on this site and they themselves haven't had issues with them on the Ecotec. Whatever issues Cometic has with the other motors, they aren't having with the Ecotec.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
I have had issues with Cometic gaskets sealing on my 2.4L. The Eco comes stock with a MLS gasket and a new stock one should be just fine.
OK thank you also would anyone know where I can get all these parts from one place??? I also have a 3 psi spring for the waste gate so psi of boost will be good for break in then. Also I have heard from people around me that I will have to take like 5000 km for breakin period so is 5000 or 500 good? Also does anyone know where I can get some high rev valve springs and retainers because I hate having that rev limiter that is what blew up my first stock turbo'd motor. I am really hoping for some good products for good lasting times and good number and if I can get everything down right then I might even venture out to some meets in the USA this year if everything goes right.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
mitdr774 wrote:I have had issues with Cometic gaskets sealing on my 2.4L. The Eco comes stock with a MLS gasket and a new stock one should be just fine.
As for the 2 ecotec motors I have torn apart in my shop niether one has a MLS head gasket it does though have a MLS exhaust gasket but still I want to get all new parts that are preferably not stock and can handle a good amount of power. A site would be great too to where I can find these bearings and stuff.
THanx for all the help so far.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Is either one of these any good or should I just go with the cometic one??? Both are from carcustoms.net
Brand: Specialty Component Engineering (SCE) $25 usd
Product Line: SCE Pro Copper Exhaust Gaskets
Port Style: Stock
Gasket Material: Copper
Quantity: Sold individually.
Exhaust Gaskets, Header, Copper, Stock Port, Chevy 2002-05, 2.2L, Ecotec, Set
Check to make sure this part fits your application
Copper sealing for your exhaust.
Made from reusable .062 in. thick flat annealed copper, these SCE Pro Copper exhaust gaskets will conform to rough or damaged surfaces to provide a tight, leak-proof seal. They're recommended for race use only.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brand: Specialty Component Engineering (SCE) $75 usd
Product Line: SCE Pro Copper Head Gaskets
Bore (in): 3.437 in.
Bore (mm): 87.299mm
Gasket Material: Copper
Compressed Thickness (in): 0.032 in.
Compressed Volume (cc): 4.865cc
Lock Wire: No
Quantity: Sold individually.
Notes: O-rings required.
Head Gasket, Copper, 3.437 in. Bore, .032 in. Compressed Thickness, Chevy, Ecotec, 2.2L, Each
Check to make sure this part fits your application
SCE Pro Copper head gaskets are softer than other gaskets for an accurate seal.
SCE Pro Copper head gaskets are CNC-fabricated, and then annealed for outstanding malleability. SCE Pro Copper head gaskets are rated 10 Rockwell F scale points softer than other gaskets for an accurate seal, and have a tensile strength of 32,000 psi to handle high-horsepower applications. SCE even claims that you can reuse a set of SCE Pro Copper head gaskets up to five times after cleaning them with a common solvent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jbodyperformance.com
JP0655 - 2200 Ecotec - Cometic MLS Head Gasket
Price: [$110.00 (US$96.80)]
Multi-Layered Stainless Steel Head Gasket for the Ecotec. [.040"], Starts from 89mm and up.
The Cometic MLS gasket is comprised of three layers of Stainless Steel. Cometic uses Stainless steel for increased strength, it’s ability to rebound and corrosion resistance. The outer layers of the gasket are embossed and coated on both sides with a flouroelastomer rubber based material (Viton) designed to meet the demands of a variety of harsh sealing environments, load conditions and surface finishes. The Viton coating is heat resistant to 2500C or 4820F. The center or shim layer of the gasket is comprised of an uncoated Stainless Steel layer, which can be varied to accommodate multiple thickness requirements. The MLS gasket is ideal for both aluminum heads to cast iron blocks and aluminum heads to aluminum blocks.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
-With the set up you are going to be running you will want a good break in. I usually break an engine in for about 500 miles taking it very easy. As far as the boost goes you will want to have it turned down as far as possible, which on your set up with an externally gated Tial will not be 3psi. It will likely be more like 8-10psi. Just take it easy and you will be fine. Hope I helped out man, and good luck
Hey mayn I'm no mechanic just a regular do it yourself guy. I just saved up enough for my build, so for the past five months I've been researching engine building and boosted applications and this is one of many articles I've found that contradicts the old school take it easy during breakin process. The engine builders I've talk to have a agreed with this philosophy and has proved it. I saw an engine that was broken in this way had 15k miles on it and walls still looked like glass. not tryin to start a fight just passing along information hope your build goes well man.
Engine break in Procedure
ok thanx for the help but does anyone suggest which head gasket I should get or what is the best one that will hold up to the most power.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
anyone please help me with head gasket!!!!!!!!!!!
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Once again I'm no mechanic so idont wanna give you the wrong information but everyone seems to love the cometic do a search for head gasket and that will answer everything.
alright thanx for the help
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Cometic over Copper any day. If someone has an issue with a Cometic gasket, its either a fluke, or they installed/assembled their engine wrong.
Copper gaskets require you to O-ring the head and/or block to seal the combustion chamber, and they have a problem sealing oil and coolant passages.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
Brad Paauw wrote:Also for the brake in period would it be ok to just let the torbo boost vent into the air so there is less pressure on things
I assume you mean open-vent the compressor side - well if you want to get your turbo to over-spool itself to death, then feel free to let it always open vent the compressor. But... if you like your turbo - do not do this.
SpeedRacerZ wrote:Cometic over Copper any day. If someone has an issue with a Cometic gasket, its either a fluke, or they installed/assembled their engine wrong.
Copper gaskets require you to O-ring the head and/or block to seal the combustion chamber, and they have a problem sealing oil and coolant passages.
...And they becoming brittle with time. I agree, go with Cometic.
As for the bearings - Chevite 77 all around. No sense in building your engine but keeping the same(esp used) factory bearings.
Now for break-in. The old advise to break in your engine real lightly is exactly that - old to the point of being outdated. This is similar to the old timers telling you that "you need back-pressure" - except that it actually was once true that you should break in engines lightly. In the past manufacturing techniques for pistons weren't so good. That is the main reason that a light-duty break in was needed. That is no longer the case but people still say you need it - mainly because those people don't know why it was needed(only that is was) and they don't know that it no longer is.
Fact is (proven by modern research) that, since piston production is much better and accurate(esp aftermarket), piston rings will seat much nicer if you give it a good amount of load early on, and your engine will be all the happier for it's entire lifespan and produce better power to boot(better piston ring seal). So go ahead and beat on it (to some degree) right away and feel confident that your engine will be fine.
To break it in right -
1. Assemble it with a moly-lube in place to keep things lubricated until oil can reach them. You might want to assemble without the turbo for this step. Maybe use your stock exhaust manifold for now.
2. Fill your engine with CONVENTIONAL OIL to start out with. I'll mention why later. Although "semi-synthetic" is just refined conventional and isn't a bad option here. I'd recommend using high quality oil filters like "K&N" or "Mobile 1" filters. They catch smaller particles.
3. Start it up, and after about 10 minutes of warm-up(maybe 15 if it is really cold outside), put it under some heavy load(run that sucker). One pass down a 1/8th or 1/4 mile strip would be great.
4. Change your oil NOW. There is gonna be a nice collection of metal shavings in it. Again use conventional or semi-synthetic.
5. With a fresh change of oil and the metal shavings all but eliminated, go ahead and put your turbocharger(and all related parts) on it. I'd recommend even having a separate in-line oil filter for your turbochargers oil feed as well as a needle valve after the filter.
6. Tune it. Then tune it some more.
7. Continue to run conventional or semi-synthetic for at least 20K. Maybe 30K. The reason is that Full Synthetics are great lubricants - TOO GREAT... They lubricate so well that there will be zero metal-on-metal contact, so the engine can't properly "break in."
8. After the "break in," feel free to use a good Full Synthetic like Mobile 1 - or even better use Royal Purple or Amsoil. I prefer Royal Purple myself since it basically eliminates dry-starts.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Ok thank you for the great help and I have ordered the head gasket and mounts and stuff.
About the open spool question
Ya i relized it after I wrote it but I ment to say should I run my 3 psi wastegate spring for the initial
20k break in or would 9 psi be ok?
Some one before in a previous response said I cant run 3 psi because an external wastegate
dont go that low but I have a 3 psi spring and that what I ran before
I went to the 9 psi spring on my last motor.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Oh @!#$ also forgot to ask where do I get these Chevite 77 bearings and this is a new
motor from GM not a used or rebuilt motor. I pulled some strings with my buddy who
works for GM and got one free under warrenty.
So please let me know where to get these bearings I would like to finish this project in 2 weeks or so.
Thanks,
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO GET THESE BEARINGS?????
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Brad Paauw wrote:ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO GET THESE BEARINGS?????
THEY DONT MAKE THEM. Gm makes the only ones right now! You were told that so drop the damn CAPS!
Ok but why is everyone saying to get these bearings if they are unavaliable for the ecotec then?
Just curious, so I am guessing the only thing to use is the factory bearings then?
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
OK thanx I was just sorta getting off the wall because everyone says use these and no one
would tell me how or where to get them but I guess now that they aint made for the ecotec.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
My bad, I misspelled them - Clevitte 77. But you know even my mispelling entered into
Google yielded the correct spelling. In case you cannot tell, there are a ton of places on the first page of the search that sell them. I'm sure that they have something that will work for(if not designed for) the Ecotec. In fact, Google-ing
Clevite 77 Ecotec yielded
This on the first page, second entry. This is from our friends @
Howell Automotive (Gary please send me free stuff, thanks). It says for "Saturn ION ECOTEC" but really they're obviously gonna be what you need.
Yes, Google is your friend, and possibly lover too
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
