Alright I am getting really ambitious and think I want to rip apart my HO and start swapping over parts. I have a 92 HO complete motor and would really like to swap it onto my built motor.
Only problem is I have the GM SC, so it will not bolt up right? Arent the bolts to the head different? I am hesitent to do it only for this reason, if I am drilling into my SC flange I have to be sure it is worth it.
Then the problem with the ports, what should I do with that, I could use my flange, it should clear so thats a possibility. I am just exploring my options, and the only thing is holding me back is have the GM SC, not sure what to do with it.
Any thoughts?
Chris
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
2.3-2.4 HO ADAPTER FLANGES 65$ shipped, Check GP Forum!
I thought about this a while ago, I asked you if the flange was a mirror image horizontally. If it was, you could just flip it around and be good to go, but you said one of the bolt holes is different, so it may be a stretch.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
OHV notec wrote:I thought about this a while ago, I asked you if the flange was a mirror image horizontally. If it was, you could just flip it around and be good to go, but you said one of the bolt holes is different, so it may be a stretch.
It's not. The far right bolt on the quads and Twin Cams is farther away from the port than the far left bolt. To be able to flip it around, you might be able to cut the right amount off of the one side, then use a spacer for to support the other side. Just an idea.
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
it's like doing the 2.3Ho manifold swap onto a 2.4L head, just with opposite parts..
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
I guess your right, I am going to mess around with a couple possibilites. I would like to get in touch with Junior to see how he got his 2.3 to accept the GMSC. I have not heard from him in a while though.
I will start expiramenting when I get my SC off this weekend and mock it up on my HO motor.
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
2.3-2.4 HO ADAPTER FLANGES 65$ shipped, Check GP Forum!
Im not to familiar with the GM SC but is it a possibility to cut the SC flange completely off? Then weld the 2.3 HO mani flange back on the SC.
- 97 Z24 Racecar work in progress
- 04 WRX STi
ATR Crew Member
A while back I saw a video with a cavy that had the 086 head using the M62 charger. Definitely more expensive but its an idea.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
I retract my previous post, its a 2002 cavy, so its got an eco.
Linky
PSN ID: Phatchance249
Built 2.4 + 2.3 086 head + M45 supercharger = a waste. I've said it before, with the right parts you can make more power n/a with the 2.4 than with the M45. In other words, that supercharger would olny lower the peak output of that motor.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
^Hmm.....interesting and VERY bold statement. Could be believable but I'd have to see dyno sheets before I'd say something like that. It would definetly be close tho.
^yes, yes, but still would be VERY close, too close to be definitive as per which setup is ultimately better.....it would ultimately come down to which setup had additional bolt-ons for sure.
Karo's 2.4 (with a 2.4 head) made 259whp with HO cams and 10.5:1 compression tuned with a S-AFC.
Using a much better flowing 086 head, higher compression, hotter cams and better tuning software (HPT) i believe could produce near 300whp all motor.
The M45 GM supercharger maxes out at about 320 cfm which is enough air to make about 230whp. No matter what else is done to the engine (head, cams, pulley, pistons, ect.) you can't get the M45 to flow any more air than its max cfm.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
^^^Do my eyes deceive me? Is Jeremy really starting to believe in the 086 head now...
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
once again the m45 debate, one day one is going to hit over 230whp and then the debate will be over.
when a car with a 56mm TB,rksport engine mounts, custom CAI, and hp tuned VCM and a m45 puts down 214whp, i cant help to point out the obvious fact that gaining that 16whp shouldnt be that difficult, nor beyond it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:59 PM
Horsepower isn't even close to the concept of "This part will/should give me XX amount of horsepower." It is based on how much oxygen can get sucked through the valves into each cylinder per rotation of the crankshaft which is what equates to:
force--->torque--->horsepower
A charger (and especially a belt driven charger) can only support a certain amount of CFM's. If the cams and head are matched to support over the 320 CFM's that Jeremy claims the m45 is limited to, then as the rpm's climb, the charger is actually impeding the flow of air into the motor and you will read vacuum on your boost gauge, which is proof that it will make you lose top end horsepower.
It is possible that you might see over 230 whp with the m45 (given that it is not based on temperature change)... but if that is the case, then it follows that you would have gained more power without it.
There is no reason to even have to debate this. Look at the L67 and the amount of pressure they see stock with an M90 compared to those with LGO's who put that same charger on their motor and the drastic increase in pressure compared. Do you really think the L67 would gain anything from the tiny m45? What about a 427? You getting it yet?
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Brian Whalen wrote:^^^Do my eyes deceive me? Is Jeremy really starting to believe in the 086 head now...
When did i ever not believe in the 086?
z yaaaa wrote:once again the m45 debate, one day one is going to hit over 230whp and then the debate will be over.
The debate is already over. Even if someome makes 235whp, i'm still right.
Everything i have to say on this topic has already been said here
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=130469&t=130235&p=1
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Skilz10179 wrote:Brian Whalen wrote:^^^Do my eyes deceive me? Is Jeremy really starting to believe in the 086 head now...
When did i ever not believe in the 086?
Everytime someone would mention doing the 086 head swap you would make some comment about "The fastest ld9 only uses the cams from a quad 4 and uses a ported 2.4L head, etc."...or something to that effect. It just seemed to me that you didn't feel it is worth it on the twin cam. Sorry if that wasn't the case.
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
I've never felt it wasn't worth it. I was probably just pointing out that the people that were suggesting it didn't have any basis for suggesting it other than org rumors.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Yup, then your right, you cant beat physics. I didn't know the M45 was that small, I really have done no looking into it since I'm going turbo anyway so I know nothing about it or its short-comings. I thought it would do better than that tho.
Skilz10179 wrote:Even if someome makes 235whp, i'm still right
how so, ur claiming 230whp is the highest possible. im not saying your wrong, your probly right when it comes to cfm etc, im just saying that 230whp is going to be beatable using an m45.
i mean just look at it... you pout an entire exhuast system on-whats that going to gain, well say 10whp just to be safe... and that has absolutly nothing to do with the intake side so changing it wont matter one bit, it can only help.
then we'll say aluminum stock sized alternator and crank pulleys, md ld9's freed up 8whp. and again, has nothing to do with the intake side breathing, its freeing UP hp.
with those 2 mods alone were already past 230whp.
then take in account a 2.3 oil pump conversion where your deleting like 12 lbs off the rotating assembly deleting the balance shafts. and lightweight forged internals....
i mean theres so much possibilty here, i just dont see how "its not possible"
Okay so long story short, the GM SC can not keep up the CFM to even make boost with a good flowing head. So even with the secret cams (I have currently) and only the HO head there would likely be no point in even having the blower on there? Would I be restricting air?
You guys are talking about running the HO cams and head, I was assuming to just run the HO head and secret cams, I assumed the blower with the 2.6 inch pulley would still make 5 PSI to push into the engine, would I be correct?
I am hoping that when I finally see some real boost after I fix my bypass valve I will like my car. If not then it looks like I would go back to NA with the 086 head.
Zyaa - The GM SC is really not great, at least it has not been for me. A lot of money, good looks, but not great performance. I wish I could build a turbo kit like Skillz and make that power with only 8 psi, but I have invested so much into this blower it sucks to throw it away and start over. I really just want this car to be done so I can concentrate on other things.... like school.
Good info here, keep it coming.
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
2.3-2.4 HO ADAPTER FLANGES 65$ shipped, Check GP Forum!
Well...I figured why not
Here is your 2.4L manifold swap...lol.
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Details.... What are you planning on doing with that?
I read your profile and it was saying planning turbo, is that an 086 head? PLanning on the GM Blower? Fill me in, nice flange though.
Also love the sig, very funny.
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
2.3-2.4 HO ADAPTER FLANGES 65$ shipped, Check GP Forum!
