I have a garrett T04E turbo on my LD9...
recently i noticed a good bit of white smoke from my tailpipe... it comes and goes... sometimes it is like a smokescreen behind me... sometimes it is just a trace of white that you have to be looking at the tailpipe to see it, sometimes the exhaust is as clear and smoke free as they come....
(an internal mechanical leak, rings, gasket, etc, would smoke all the time... not just here or there)
It seems to me that it smokes the most when the car is warmed up and the oil has thinned out (and oil pressures are the lowest). It happens the most at idle and low rpm driving.
It is NOT coolant or steam... there is nothing sweet about the smell of the white smoke. it is definately a potent burning smell.
I read that extremely lean conditions can cause white/grey smoke. this is more white than grey i would say... but in almost all cases the readings of both the wideband and the oem O2 sensor show a perfectly normal fuel mixture. (oem bouncing back and forth smoothely, and wb floating right around 14-15s)
The coolant never heats up more than usual, cant remember the last time i saw it break 190... and yes the heater blows hot, so i know it is circulating
I do seem to be using some oil.... the more smoke i get the more oil seems to disappear from my dipstick. (i know oil usually burns blueish... but does synthetic (castrol Syntec) burn the same color as conventional oil?) And does oil burning outside the combustion chamber (leaking into and burning in the turbo and exhaust) burn as hot and get the same color as it would from say a bad piston ring...
I am thinking i may have a bad oil seal in my turbo... This all started after blowing a charge pipe at the track a few weeks ago. So the turbo could have overspun causing the seal issues....
i did notice an oily film inside the charge pipes when i was putting it back together...
and i changed my oil the other day, and noticed my oil return line was all oily... and just about everything below the turbo seemed to have an oily film on it...
so again... all this makes me think i have a leaky turbo.... what do you all think?
and is there a way to just replace the oil seals? or do i just rebuild the whole thing? last i checked there was no shaft play, and everything seemed nice and tight and it spun just fine, no noises or anything. So dont think i need to rebuild... but that oil issue needs attention asap.
also... are the rebuild kits on ebay any good? or should i get parts / kit else where? or should i just send it out somewhere? and if so... where is a good place? or is there a local place in ohio somewhere? (preferably by cleveland)
id have to say that white=coolant,
you are definitely leaking it from somewhere.
I would have your car checked for a leaking head gasket...even with the varying amounts of smoke. Does it seem to have more smoke when the engine is cold?
Is your turbo oil/coolant cooled??
I had a good deal of oil on my retrun line too, it was a loose fitting at the turbo.....not the turbo itself.
If you do need a rebuild, i would suggest sending it out.
Well, I had the same thing happen to me before my headgasket blew last year. For about a month i was seeing intermittant white smoke. This was a sign that my headgasket was giving way.
A month later, it blew. I wish I knew what was going on before hand or else Id tear down the engine so I could save my rods and pistons.
I'd say take the head off and check things out before its too late.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD
AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
WHITECAVY wrote:Well, I had the same thing happen to me before my headgasket blew last year. For about a month i was seeing intermittant white smoke. This was a sign that my headgasket was giving way.
A month later, it blew. I wish I knew what was going on before hand or else Id tear down the engine so I could save my rods and pistons.
I'd say take the head off and check things out before its too late.
I feared this too at first.... But talking to a few people locally here, they all tell me that i should not be in any danger of blowing a head gasket yet.. and that if i did i would know it.
I have head studs and an OEM graphite gasket, which i am told should easily hold up to 20psi of boost. I was told that this was the best combination short of an o-ring setup.
Everything i have read and have been told says that coolant does not burn, and that it will have a sweet smell and a steamy feel..
my smoke is exactly that... it is smoke. white and smells like burning. nothing sweet or wet about it. It smells bad and makes you want to gag if you catch a good wiff of it.
Also... i just changed my oil, and carefully inspected it for water/moisture/debris. it was totally dry... not so much as a lil bubble of water... seemed a little thin, but that was all... as for debris, i had some of the usual metal fuzz stuck to the tip of my magnetic drain plug.. but running a magnet thru the drained oil gathered nothing but a lil bit more metal fuzz. As this motor still has less than 6000 miles on it... that could easily still be "break in" fuzz.
John Benham wrote:id have to say that white=coolant,
you are definitely leaking it from somewhere.
I would have your car checked for a leaking head gasket...even with the varying amounts of smoke. Does it seem to have more smoke when the engine is cold?
Is your turbo oil/coolant cooled??
I had a good deal of oil on my retrun line too, it was a loose fitting at the turbo.....not the turbo itself.
If you do need a rebuild, i would suggest sending it out.
no. when the engine is cold there is never any smoke... it always waits till the car is good and warmed up.... like when cold, i get almost 100psi of oil pressure even at idle. as the car warms up and oil thins out, this will drop to 30-40 and stay there for awhile... but on hot days... or if there is alot of sitting around at idle... or stop and go... i will get oil pressures down to like 5-10 at idle... but they always climb right back up to 50 or so under load.
It seems to smoke almost exclusively after the oil is nice and hot, and the idle pressures are real low.... (but not every time the pressure is low will it smoke)
that is what makes me think a seal... as the thin hot oil is more likely to sneak thru a small seal leak.
but yeah, i too am confused by the color not matching the other criteria.
I will not rule out head gasket... but is there a good way to test them without pulling the head? like will a compression test reveal head gasket issues?
also, shouldnt i see water in the oil or oil in the water if it is a head gasket?
Why not use a Cometic head-gasket? If i remember correctly, the stock ones give way in boosted LD9's quite often.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
-MD- Enforcer wrote:Why not use a Cometic head-gasket? If i remember correctly, the stock ones give way in boosted LD9's quite often.
I was told by a shop that builds ALOT of quad-4's twin-cams etc... that the stock graphite gasket is really one of the best out there for moderate boost. They said it is usually the head bolts that give, and allow the gasket to blow. They said a new stock gasket, with a good set of properly torqued head studs will hold up to just about anything as long as you dont go too crazy.
(also hear that felpro is good for stock applications, but it is an inferior head gasket especially when high compression and boost are involved.)
I was also told that the cometics and other multilayered gaskets have problems leaking and other issues. That unless properly preped and installed by a shop experienced in multilayered gaskets, that you might be asking for trouble with that style. (also i didnt like the choices of thickness... and i dont think stock thickness was an option.)
I was also told that solid copper is a great choice, but requires alot more maintainence and re-torqueing and all... and thus not advised on daily driven street cars.
Trust me... if there is one thing i do almost too well.... it is research.... i talk the ear off anyone who knows anything before i make major decisions / purchases like this....
-MD- Enforcer wrote:Why not use a Cometic head-gasket? If i remember correctly, the stock ones give way in boosted LD9's quite often.
Really? I know stock ones with stock head bolts going 15psi no problems.
Truly there is not set limit a head gasket can blow at any psi.
Why when I read Ken's post for help does he never believe what people tell him?? I do not get it.
FU Tuning
John Higgins wrote:Why when I read Ken's post for help does he never believe what people tell him?? I do not get it.
John my friend... It is nothing against you or anyone else out there... It is not that i "do not believe" people.... I dont think people are just making stuff up to give me bad info...
I trust everyone here is offering their own honest advice and opinions, and doing there best to help where they can....
but you will see that you can (and will) find 2 conflicting stories for every one you hear.
like here is a perfect example in this very thread... john saying that stock gaskets blow in boosted LD9's all the time... If i were to listen to every word anyone tells me and accept it as the carved in stone word of god himself.... i would think that the stock gasket is garbage and never to be used on a boosted LD9... since they blow all the time...
but then 2 different people come along and say "no they will handle 15psi all day long... i have seen it"
So i mean how can you believe EVERYTHING you hear? because you WILL hear things that totally contradict themselves.
So the INTELEGENT way to approach this is to LISTEN to EVERYONE... but do not believe anyone... and then sit back and look at all the advice you got from all the different people... and then make your own decisions based on all your research.
yes some people will swear you made the wrong choice... and some will be pissed that you didnt listen... but the people that are the best to listen to are the ones that will talk through their reasons, and explain WHY they feel that way. And not get upset because you dont just obey their every word.
you can not even trust books and magazines and "professionals" because who knows who is "sponsoring them" or payin them to hype up a product...
You know the signs "best corned beef in town" "best coffee in the state" "worlds best gyros" You see them all over.. in every other window... I mean how can every place have the "best" it cant... so you cant believe the signs. you just need to talk to people and find out what worked the best for the most people. and not everyone is going to agree on who really has the "best gyro"
most people only know what they have "well this worked for me" "well i tried that and it sucked". but their situation may be WAY different than yours. so you cant even go by that. you take it all in, and then make your own decisions based on everything. that is the ONLY way to do it.
and interestingly.... I just did a lil test.....
I started the car up, and idled it for a bit... no smoke of any sort. everything seems fine... let it run till everything was good and hot... still no smoke yet... but....
i pulled the dipstick (with engine running) and got a lil puff of white smoke out the dipstick tube...
then proceeded to allow the oil to drip off the dipstick onto the hot, running, turbo exhaust housing.. within 20 seconds... billowing WHITE SMOKE from the top of the turbo as the oil burned off.
almost the exact same color and smell as i get from the exhaust when it smokes....
I tried to take a picture of it for you non-believers... but the camera couldnt capture the smoke.
car still idling... hope it will smoke for me so i can get a pic of it smoking from the tailpipe....
so yes... a AGREE that "oil burns blue" but i am sure that is only at combustion chamber temps.... so if your leaking into the cylinder... then yes it is blue... but at the lower temps of the exhaust... it doesnt get THAT hot... and so the oil burns differently.
well most High LD9 HP guys are running the Cometic Gasket. David, Marks/Brian's, spyhunter, and If I remember correctly Fetter.
Karo's motor has an all copper gasket. "SCE Gaskets Copper Head Gasket"
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
well i cant get the exhaust "smoke" to show up in pics... but this is my "oil dripped onto turbo" smoke.... notice it is white... now just imagine that exact same stuff coming out my tailpipe... and that is what i am talking about here.
I had the same problem it was a drop of oil that would leak into my downpipe from the turbo.Only after it warmed up and it comes and goes.I bet when your driving it you cant see it? I just put a oil restrictor on the turbo and fixed it.
Ricardo Rosario wrote:I had the same problem it was a drop of oil that would leak into my downpipe from the turbo.Only after it warmed up and it comes and goes.I bet when your driving it you cant see it? I just put a oil restrictor on the turbo and fixed it.
I thought the same thing at one point... but my turbo supposedly already has the proper sized restrictor for this engine... but then again.. mine has an upgraded oiling system... so maybe i am still getting too much oil... or maybe i just have a bad seal... i dunno.
Well Ken if you don't think its the HG then maybe it could be a valve stem leaking oil down in the cylinders burning oil?
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
had the same thing when i finished the install on my turbo. the seal was gone in the turbo cause it to push oil into the exhaust
the easiest way to check a bad head gasket in a running car, is stick a tailpipe sniffer into the coolant resivoir (cant actually touch the coolant), if you see a good amount of HC, or almost any CO, you are looking at probably a head gasket problem.
The easiest way would be to put pressure in the cylinder from a compressor and check the reservoir for bubbles. But honestly, I don't know why you guys are still helping him. Every time he as a problem he ask here and acts like he knows the answer and never seem to believe anyone here.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Dude if you already have "the answer" for everyone... then you should have the answer as to why it is smoking...
The way i see it is... if there is no water in the oil... you are not burning through oil rapidly... you are not losing any coolant... and your water temperatures are not increasing above normal... then i would not worry about a small amount of white smoke that comes and goes.... your car is still running perfectly fine.... but thats just my opinion...
....or you could just swap in an ecotec and not have any leaks or smoke.... lol
...I am the BEST at what I do...
"I guess your right[BlueBoost]. Me and my slow car are failers."
just wanted to update all of those who care....
I pulled my turbo off today... sure enough it was full of oil. the entire compressor housing was nice and lubed up... and oil dripping on me from the turbine side when i disconnected it from the turbine housing... so yeah... looks like im gonna need a rebuild.
i tore it all apart and cleaned it up myself, apart from bad seals and a lil bit of carbon build up, she was in great shape... still nice and tight, spins real smoothe... no play in any direction... but yeah she leaks like a mofo.
So if i need to have this balenced anyway... i guess i should send it out and have it rebuilt and balenced all at once... i can do it while the supercharger is out being rebuilt... yeah i gotta do it too...
So where do you guys suggect for mail-order rebuilding of turbo's? or does anyone know of anywhere in local cleveland ohio that does this?
also... for the supercharger... i am torn between Steigermester who will rebuild and port it for like $600 but only a 90 day warranty.... or PSE who will remanufacture and port it, and warranty it for life but for $1000.... i do like to save $400 but i also do like lifetime warrantys... hmmmmm
