Got almost everything done on the car. 2004 eco swap. So I am running into a couple issues and would like to see how you guys are resolving them.
1. the fuel pressure regulator has a plastic line on it. Thats a vaccum line right? i am guessing that would need to either need to be fitted to the stock eco mani fir vaccum or can i put a fitting in the charg pipe and adapt it there.
2. as far as the guys running the saab setup with a auto trans i have searched and see that most are going under the motor with the charge pipe and those going over top have deleted their a/c. I have the stock saab charge pipe and am wondering what coupler you guys are using directly under the turbo. most seem to be straight. I guess what i need here is a up close picture of how the pipe makes it to the front of the bay and how it comes past the trans.
3. Most of the saab guys, are you running the oil catch cans or is the baffle in the valve cover sufficent?
4. How far can i go on the stock 04 fuel injectors with hp tuners at say 6psi? Looking to get it dialed in before I upgrade injectors and up the boost, by the way the motor is built.
thanks guys
jason
jason norwood wrote: Got almost everything done on the car. 2004 eco swap. So I am running into a couple issues and would like to see how you guys are resolving them.
1. the fuel pressure regulator has a plastic line on it. Thats a vaccum line right? i am guessing that would need to either need to be fitted to the stock eco mani fir vaccum or can i put a fitting in the charg pipe and adapt it there.
In stock form this is vented into the air inlet, and does not see manifold vacuum. Depending on how you are tuning your setup, you can attach this to boost pressure only, or boost and vacuum via the manifold. If you do hook it up toboth boost and vaccum (via being downstream of the throttle body, such as a signal from the intake manifold) it will reduce fuel pressure to less than stock at idle, but that may work well with what you are doing in terms of injector sizing, and how you are working your injector constants.
jason norwood wrote:
4. How far can i go on the stock 04 fuel injectors with hp tuners at say 6psi? Looking to get it dialed in before I upgrade injectors and up the boost, by the way the motor is built.
IMHO, you can't. I'd suggest zero boosting until you get properly sized injectors and tuning in there. If you wish to just run the car to verify other aspects, you can disconnect your wastegate actuator rod from the valve lever, which will keep the valve open and prevent boost.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
ok thanks bill.
any one actually have the pictures of the piping???
bill, i will use hp tuners to tune so which way would you suggest i run the line on the fpr, by the way its a aeromotive lt1 reg that bolts on to the rail. are u saying it might be easier to tune the fuel if its locked into a certain base pressure??
thanks for the insight
jason
It's all relative on the FPR...if you run vacuum to it, you just need to tune the PCM accordingly. Personally, we've always just run them to boost only (upstream of throttle body) and not vacuum, so as to keep it out of the normally aspirated fueling equation, same as it was stock. This way, we keep the same delta across the injector under boost pressure when it adds fuel pressure at a 1:1 ratio with boost.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
1) fpr needs vacuum from the manifold.. idk if the stock one adds pressure on a 1:1 basis with manifold pressure, but an AFPR will take care of this.
4) stock injectors are not enough for stock in most cases. you cannot boost on stock injectors.
yea def no boost on the stock injectors ppl are leaning out with minor mods without boost... and purchase a vaccum maniflod off ebay..... you can run all of your vac out of that since the eco only has one open vac port.
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:1) fpr needs vacuum from the manifold.. idk if the stock one adds pressure on a 1:1 basis with manifold pressure, but an AFPR will take care of this.
Ecotec J-body is an exception. In Ecotec J applications, the stock FPR is not manifold vacuum referenced. It will however, work well as a 1:1 regulator in boosted applicaitons where is sees boost only...our 406 WHP Sunfire used a stock FPR in this fashion, along with PortFueler.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
ok bill so ill just put a port on the charge pipe and run the port on the adjustable to that??
anyone have pics of the automatic trans with the saab turbo??
also no answer about the catchcan yet??
thanks
jason norwood wrote:ok bill so ill just put a port on the charge pipe and run the port on the adjustable to that??
anyone have pics of the automatic trans with the saab turbo??
also no answer about the catchcan yet??
thanks
Putting it on a tube can work, but I'd be more comfortable drilling and tapping a port right into the compressor housing. Many already have a port, or a blank boss you can drill/tap easily.
You should not need a catchcan.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Ok so the 03+ eco fpr's work the right way? Damn you lucky bastards I can confirm that the 02 eco fpr's go backwards and pull pressure with boost or at least add with vacuum. Thats how they worked in stock form since they are connected to the air inlet tube instead of vac referenced like a normal car, so the higher the velocity of air in the intake tube the more vacuum in the fpr reference line (this is due to Bernoulli's principal, and the fact that at higher throttle positions and rpm's [and thus loads] the air velocity will be higher and need more fuel, actually pretty genius on MG's part but a pain in the ass for us) and the more fuel it adds. I guess the 03+'s must be different.
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Leafy wrote:Ok so the 03+ eco fpr's work the right way? Damn you lucky bastards I can confirm that the 02 eco fpr's go backwards and pull pressure with boost or at least add with vacuum. Thats how they worked in stock form since they are connected to the air inlet tube instead of vac referenced like a normal car, so the higher the velocity of air in the intake tube the more vacuum in the fpr reference line (this is due to Bernoulli's principal, and the fact that at higher throttle positions and rpm's [and thus loads] the air velocity will be higher and need more fuel, actually pretty genius on MG's part but a pain in the ass for us) and the more fuel it adds. I guess the 03+'s must be different.
As I recall, even the '02's are sourced upstream of the throttle body, so never see vaccum, thus never change in fuel pressure on an NA car. GM engineers just didn't want to leave the FPR signal port open under the hood, that's why it's routed to the inlet pipe..not to pick up a signal. No Bernouilli's. This was an interim step on the way to today's world where FPR's are not typically vacuum referenced, and usually in the fuel fank pump module.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Yes the 02's are between the throttle body and air filter and mounted at a right angle to the air intake tube. Trust me, when theres air moving in that intake tube theres vacuum in the tube for the fpr reference, its how physics work.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Physics aside, that was not the intention. It's a nice guess, an elegant one even...but trust me on this one. If you were to monitor FP on a car with a stock intake, you'd see that it nevers changes.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Hmm weird. I dont have a stock eco to test that on so I'll take your word for it. I guess my fpr is just messed up because I was getting a nice ~41 psi with the key on and ~45 coasting in gear then ~37 in boost. This is why my tune is wacky.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
...ok quick one.. with bigger injectors fuel pump and say 12-18 psi... do i need an afpr??? or is there a better way to go about this?
Ok so what about guys like me on my 02 I have the Aem intake and put the vac line on the one open port of the intake manifold before I got my le5 one. Now I have the le5 I replaced the hard plastic evap line with rubber. I put a tee on that line and ran both fpr vac and my hvac vac line to it. Now does that make the 02 regulator work differently?
hvac line?
The Ecotec J-body FPR does not vacuum reference in stock form. You can hook it to vacuum, but that will reduce fuel pressure at idle about about 7-8 PSI. You can tune around this, but unless you need to reduce fueling at idle (which should be done in the PCM via tuning anyway), there's no need to source it to vacuum.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
Yes hvac I have a 02 lol. My vent selector in the car for heat ac etc is controlled by vac lol. So will my fpr act like a 1:1 boost referenced one then connected like this then?
Ah OK! Was not aware the '02's had vacuum in the heat and ac controls still.
Yes, that's what your stock FPR will do, it is actually a 1:1 regulator when vacuum and/or pressure referenced. We ran one on our 406 WHp Sunfire; it was the sole regulator for both the stock injectors as well as our PortFueler injectors.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
my fp goes up under wot... always has, even as NA, I have a FP gauge.
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IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:my fp goes up under wot... always has, even as NA, I have a FP gauge.
If in NA form it was not attached to manifold vacuum (as they are not stock), then you were seeing something else...perhaps even voltage vs. RPM differences affecting your gauge. As a rule, the difference would be about 7-8 PSI from full vacuum to WOT (atmospheric pressure). If you didn't see that range, you weren't seeing a manifold-referenced fuel pressure.
Of course, if you have it signaled to boost in your now boosted form, it will compensate in a 1:1 ratio with boost pressure.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
