Okay, so most of you are probably familiar with my mods by now. ive been running with the below list of mods for a while now since my install in February. I am ready to possibly do my next phase IF i keep this car.
Since I dont want to go into the motor much at all right now, Im trying to keep my power limited to not having to replace internals (yet). Im guessing Id be pushing it at 250-275fwhp.
Current performance mods (not including gauges and other little things like short shifter):
-stock M62
-stock L61 throttle body
-3.0" smoothflow pulley
-Stage1 belt
-OEM phenolic spacers (removed the head to mani one for now)
-larger tensioner pulley (used an idle pulley)
-ZZP S3 heat exchanger, dual pass ep, option B
-racetronics wbody high performance fuel pump/harness
-42.5lb (stage2) LSJ injectors
-Stage 2 BAHNOF 6 puck clutch (new stock flywheel)
I have recently obtained Stage2 Comp cams (they are not too aggressive, for n/a but can work for supercharged setups). These are very similar to the s/c cams.
So my next phase is:
-Stage2 cams
-2.8" smoothflow pulley
-LS1 or Vortec throttlebody (obviously will need a new adapter)
-Stage2 belt
-meth injection
- valve springs/kit <------------------
My question is, what kit can i go with thats not going to rape my bank account? Do I need a full kit or can I get just the springs? are 78lb'ers good, what about the 76lb kits? do i need new retainers and seats? what else do I need besides the springs themselves? I have no idea what all i need to be able to safely run higher RPMs with this cam and smaller pulley setup. I didnt see a lot on springs in the forums so maybe i just missed the threads. But with 189,000 miles, Im sure if I keep this car its not going to last another 50k. So with that in mind, I plan on rebuilding an Eco when that happens..and it'll be a complete rebuild (bottom up) with a much higher hp goal in mind. My car never started as a 'tuner' because its a friggin cavalier. But when I see the faces on my friends with S2000's, Mazdaspeeds, V8 Camaros and Mustangs, 350z's, and the like all getting beat by me and handling as good if not better in the canyons, I love it. Which is why Im doing mostly the remaining bolt ons that I can and not touching the internals of this motor.
Appreciate the input and I have a few ideas of where Im going after these basic level upgrades. But for now, this should keep my dd in the ring with some of the big boys for a little longer.
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Oh and heres my cams...
Stage 2 2.2L ECOTEC
Duration @ .050*, Valve Lift
INTAKE 228*, 446
EXHAUST 232*, 448
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
If you plan on building in 50k miles, i would not worry about internals, and run the heck out of it til rebuild time, then do it ALL!
The supertech's are going to be your best bang for the buck, and are proven over and over again. The 78lb kit seems to be the standard. I think Aaron @ TTR may have the best price on them, and definitely the best customer service. The Supertech's will also give you room to grow, the can support bigger grinds like the GMR cams (though I use the term bigger loosely, lol, considering even our "big" cams are tiny in comparison to like every other motor out there).
The also come as a full kit (springs, seats, keepers). I would just replace the valve stem seals while you are in there, since they are dirt cheap. I think Fel-pro OEM replacements are like $12 from Rock Auto.
Well if you plan to take the head off anyway... have a shop check it. they can tell you if you need guides or not.
Fetter can order all of it for you... He just ordered all mine.... twice due to me bending valves but he can get them pretty quick and at a decent price.
I'm guessing your power currently around 230-240whp.
FU Tuning
So you guys think something like this is everything Id need for the springs?
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/501-Supertech-78lb-Valve-Spring-Kit.aspx
If TTR has them cheaper I did not see it. TTR site has: 75lb springs, 94lb springs, and the Ferrea dual valve springs. Not sure which would be the one to go with since I heard 78's were the ideal upgrade.
I had not planned on removing the head at this time. Ive been reading up a little on the LSJ options and Im thinking more and more any rebuild and my car would be a true L61/LSJ hybrid like a few others are doing. Just makes sense if you are going to invest.
This would basically be just for the springs, pulley, cams, and then tune it. Im also lookin into my meth options, but how/where to put the nozzle and the cost of everything is just piling up. My goal is to 'bolt on' some more upgrades within the limits of my engine at this time and not really worry about any 'major' upgrades until I decide I want serious power or I actually end up keeping the car. For now, i want to just move into the next step of being faster and consider this my personal 'stage 2'.
Addicted, Im hoping thats about where Im at. I figure with these upgrades, Ill be pushing the limits of my motor and will have to start deciding whether or not this is going to be the focus of an actual project i invest in. I LOVE being underestimated, and you cant really find a better car on the road than a base model cavalier to underestimate
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
THMotorsports.com is the cheapest place i found for SuperTechs when i bought mine a few years ago.
Tinkles, thanks! Seems like a great website.
Now on that site, i found the 78lb'ers only available individually. They come to $127 for 16 springs. But the other kits are like $325+. So Im confused as to how retainers and seats are making the price go up so much. whats the difference between the single and dual valve springs?
Theres these 78lb invidual purchase ones:
http://thmotorsports.com/supertech_performance/supertech_valve_springs/sprts1015ec/i-252880.aspx
And these 76lb spring kit at $328 (free shipping):
http://thmotorsports.com/supertech_performance/supertech_spring_/_retainer_kits/sprkec3025/i-69171.aspx
Is there a major difference in which spring rate to buy? I hear '78' thrown around a lot. I also noticed ont he 76lb kit, it says the smaller seals are required for the SEAT-EC3020 seats. Do the seals come with or do i need to buy new ones specific to those (assuming thats a good kit to go with)?
Appreciate the help. One other question, will these springs be good for a much higher hp setup if i were to ever do a rebuild?
btw, ZZP has the 78lb kit (http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/501-Supertech-78lb-Valve-Spring-Kit.aspx) for $350. This includes the titanium retainers and seats, so Im assuming those will also require smaller seals unless you specify you want the OEM seats.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:36 PM
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
What ever option you get, make sure that it utilizes the FACTORY valve stem seals. The universal viton seals that come with the GMPP valve spring kit for example (or the supertech 94lb kit) suck. They really don't seat right on our valve guides IMHO. I mean you could take the head to a shop and have them massage the guides, but for all that added hassle and expense why not just get something that uses the factor seal?
oldskool wrote:What ever option you get, make sure that it utilizes the FACTORY valve stem seals. The universal viton seals that come with the GMPP valve spring kit for example (or the supertech 94lb kit) suck. They really don't seat right on our valve guides IMHO. I mean you could take the head to a shop and have them massage the guides, but for all that added hassle and expense why not just get something that uses the factor seal?
I want to say my 94# kit came with EVERYTHING, bronze guides, new seals to fit those guides, springs, retainers,, keepers, and valves.
The kits Ive been looking at come with their own retainers and seals. But the ZZp kit for the 78lb ones i think showed smaller seals with their seats and suggested making note during the purchase if you want OEM seals.
I just want it all to be an easy swap...so I guess ordering the 78lb kit from ZZP with the stock/OEM seals is what I should do...? from their website: "KITS INCLUDE: Valve Springs, Titanium Retainers and Seats (unless noted to use OEM Seat)." So if I order it, order requesting OEM seats?
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Did you message Fetter to see what he can do for a price for you? He's done mine, twice and it was cheaper than the box stores.
Blu: the Supertech kit uses both the oem seat AND the aftermarket seat that comes with them. They sit one inside the other; stock seat is for outer spring, aftermarket seat is for inner spring.
For the seals, some have said you can reuse stock on this kit, and some say to use the viton smaller ones from Supertech but that they leak. I called them up when ordering everything for mine and they said the proper way to install this kit is to use their smaller seals and smaller valve guides that are made for each other (part numbers: VS-T6SM and GDE-EC60-SM). I say replace the whole thing in there...relatively cheap insurance.
Wow good information!
Bulit...I have not contacted anyone just yet. Getting this properly tuned in a timely manor is also going to be a concern. I dont want to have the parts installed, then not be able to drive the car for weeks as it just sits waiting for a tune. The costs are piling up with the desire to also upgrade the tb and get a new adapter among other things. So Im trying to put it all together. It will definitely be a nice upgrade and it'd be a whole new car! Also...who is Fetter again? Which parts would he be able to possibly get a decent quote on? just the spring kit?
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Brandon Fetter, Boosted2point4. He got me EVERYTHING. springs, valves, everything. worth looking into for sure.
I dont see a user by the name brandon fetter or that user name even when searching "boosted". does he have any odd symbols or anything instead of letters?
I want to see what deal i can get on a valve spring kit..it'll determine how quickly I end up with all the necessary parts to finish this 'stage 3' build (Im skipping stage 2, whatever that consists of haha)
04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
