Is it possible? I'm building more for show than go but thought that would be cool for both. Take a 205 hp supercharged ecotech and add a turbo on top. Can it be done?

Without discussing if one would really need to or if it's a good or bad idea, yes it can be done. Rumor is that Hahn is developing a turbo kit for the GM SS/SC. On top of that there's actually someone on the Org with a twin-charged Cavalier. Can't remember their name, though.

Yes. It can be done. How, i don't have a clue. I'm not sure if it was a mini or a VW that actually had both, it was in a tuner mag about a year ago. So it can be done it is just ALOT of work.


2003 2.2L ECOtec Cavalier

*Mods* (im poor)
Butchered hole in filter box
Turn down no name dual-tip exhaust

there a guy on here with w sc/turbo sunfire and it runs and everything. search in the photos forum for it.

his name is josh, and its pretty cool, look in the boost forum, and find the thread that says "officially twin charged"

My bad. Thought it was a Cavalier. It's a J though.

yea there is one....it runs but we have never seen a vid of it driving or being dynod, who knows?



2007 GM Tuner Bash...HELL YEA
PA,MD,NJ,DE,NY and all states north caravan

This has been done A LOT. There is a guy on HMT working on a supercharged, twin turbo B18 for a show car... pretty cool looking pipes if you ask me. If horsepower is your thing this is not practical at all, or very effective. The concept is extremely simple.. one feeds the other.. I don't understand why so many people say it wouldn't work... rediculous.



Cardomain|Myspace

Its not the best setup, practically speaking, but you did say you were looking for more show than go. Yes it can be done and it has been done before, just like the others have said. Josh F. turbo'd his supercharged Sunfire a little while ago and is still working out little details, if I recall correctly, but the only difference is that he has an LD9 instead of the L61. Just know that you'll have to put some time into thinking how to go about boost, and you should have at least some knowledge about boost before you start buying parts. Even if you're going for show, you don't want to purchase needless parts, waste time, and possibly damage your motor.



Blown.

hey, your car will suck and blow at the same time



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

In all reality, you can just buy a hahn kit and a gm supercharger kit and install them both. Use the fuel management provided with the GM kit and be done with it. The only thing you will have to do special is modify the inlet to the TB to go into the charger instead of that hahn elbow... very simple



Cardomain|Myspace

Twin electric super and turbo.

Cost effective

Electric s/c, Hahaha. I heart Jason.



Blown.

I've got a 1998 sunfire with a 2200 carrying 95000 miles on it. Do I dare think of turbo or just dress it up with intake and billet accessories. Again i'm thinking more for show than go but I would like a little more power than I have now. The supercharged 205 was something I was thinking of later on down the road. Any suggesstions?

I'm not trying to be rude, but do you have any idea of how much work and time is involved w/ this concept for you? You have to do the ecotec swap which is a lot of time and money for pre 00 cars by itself and on top of that you want to s/c and turbo it both at the same time? If you are going to do it yourself then expect to be in the $5-6K and probably about 40-60 hours of work, both could and probably will be more though. Do yourself a favor and just keep it simple, just turbo it and polish some stuff up and be done with it.



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JoeyDaBomb wrote:I'm not trying to be rude, but do you have any idea of how much work and time is involved w/ this concept for you? You have to do the ecotec swap which is a lot of time and money for pre 00 cars by itself and on top of that you want to s/c and turbo it both at the same time? If you are going to do it yourself then expect to be in the $5-6K and probably about 40-60 hours of work, both could and probably will be more though. Do yourself a favor and just keep it simple, just turbo it and polish some stuff up and be done with it.

not too difficult... honestly, once you get the engine in the car (not to undersimplify the swap difficulty), but much like M I N I O N - Sinbird said, all you need to do is buy the charger kit, buy the turbo kit, hook them both up respectively, and run custom turbo piping to the intake on the supercharger, maybe move around the turbo intake pipe depending upon room and a larger exhaust.... other than that its just the same amount of work that it would be to put one or the other on, just combined. i may be sounding like im oversimplifying, but its not the farfetched, "OMG THATS TOO HARD TO EVEN CONSIDER" idea that some people are making it out to be. and time and money arent factors in a concept... which is why its called a "concept", or an idea. may not be very effective, but hey man, if its all for show, why not..

Its not just installation but also tuning. I've seen these types of questions posted many times and more than often people abandon the project because they didn't expect it to be so much work. Its not just custom fabrication of a turbo/s/c setup but its also running and tuning everything. The author of this thread, so far, seems like just another newbie who hasn't filled out his profile and wants to become a unique flower with a fast and/or showy Cavalier. I'm not trying to bash anyone, but there's alot more to a project than just putting parts together and thinking it'll work. Unless this car will be a trailer queen and you won't start the engine, I wouldn't recommend doing this until you have enough knowledge about boost and engines.



Blown.

Easiest way out, twin electric superchargers.

well this guy is talking more so for show purposes so tuning really wouldnt make that big of a matter, but i see where youre comin from and what you mean. and true.. knowlege first, then think about doin what your lookin for.

Jon DeVincenzo wrote:well this guy is talking more so for show purposes so tuning really wouldnt make that big of a matter, but i see where youre comin from and what you mean. and true.. knowlege first, then think about doin what your lookin for.

I mostly agree. Tuning for power amy not be a big concern for him, but even still, compound boost requires a fair amount of knowledge even to just tune the motor so he doesn't blow it up while driving around town. With the wrong tune, the first time he puts his foot in it, he very well may start breaking things.

Well like he said, it is more or less a show car but if its not a trailer queen and never stated then some thought should be put into the project and Some tuning should be done. But you guys are right, sorry if I came off rude.



Blown.

I don't think it's ever going to happen either.. but he asked. As far as tuning goes, the "inbetween pressure" has no effect on the engine, only the final pressure after the blower. You can tune it based on the reading from your map just like you would a turbo car.



Cardomain|Myspace

electric chargers= crap they fry in a few months

M I N I O N - Sinbird wrote:I don't think it's ever going to happen either.. but he asked. As far as tuning goes, the "inbetween pressure" has no effect on the engine, only the final pressure after the blower. You can tune it based on the reading from your map just like you would a turbo car.

Agreed. But it does affect how the turbo and supercharger work together. I'm not completely educated on compound boost but I can see issues with either overworking one of the two compressors or something like that. They'd have to be perfectly matched, and I'm still trying to see how the process works, since the supercharger can only flow so much air, no matter how much air it's fed by a turbo. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

Quote:

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

You hit the money there at the end.
Little science experiment for you to try at home... Take two fans (prefferable those huge square fans with no stand, flat on the fornt and back,) Point one fan at you. Now take the other fan and stick it in front of the other, still pointed at you. You will feel more air and both fans will start spinning faster.
There is good reasoning behind this. When you think about a compressor on the turbo or the scrolls of a supercharger, while operating there is a high pressure side and a low pressure side. This is a little obvious because you have to get that compressed air from somewhere. By adding the compressor of the turbo in-line with the scrolls of the blower, you are creating a "zero pressure" pocket of moving air between the two. The pressurized air coming from the turbocharger is cancelling out the negative pressure of the blower, essentially eazing the load of both devices because the blower is getting fed as it tries to pull and the turbo is being pulled as it tries to push.
Ok, that part is probably as clear as it is going o ever be. Now.. don't think of a blower as the little scrolls... think of it like a soda bottle. Put the cap on and squeeze it with 5lbs of force and maybe you will end up with 10 psi (totally pulling these numbers from my ass.) Now let it go and take the cap off.... Now try the same trick, but put the cap on in a room that is already under 10psi of pressure... and take the bottle out of that room. Now you have 10psi inside of the bottle before you ever squeeze it..... Now put 5lbs of force on it...... maybe you'll get 15psi total (again.. straight out the ass.) The point is that air is infinately compressable. Compressing it before it is compressed is just going to further compress it. By using one compression device to aid the other, you are increasing the over-all efficiency of the system.... More efficient = cooler compressed air temperatures which in effect can give you the same final pressure but more dense due to the decrease in temperature.
How to control it? No matter what size pulley you have on ther blower (to a reasonable extent) you can control the amount of pressure the engine sees using the wastegate of your turbo system. The only difference is that you are going to take the boost pressure sorce from the intake manifold rather than the nozzle of the turbo. Even if the turbo is only pushing 5 psi through the charge pipes (which is actually higher as this is 5psi ABOVE the negative pressure from the supercharger) the intake manifold may see as high as 15psi all depending on how fast the supercharger is spinning. By taking the manifold source, the wastegate will open at what pressure you set, despite how much pressure the turbo is pushing (remember, this is a CFM/density game anyway.) By rerouting the exhaust around the turbine it can control the pressure in the cahrge pipes, controlling what the supercharger has to work with, ultimately controlling the final manifold pressure.

THE IS NO MAGIC PULEY SIZE/TURBO SIZE COMBINATION. Keep the two with in reasonable limits of the engines opperating parameters as if it was only a blower or only a turbo and the two will work together flawlessly. It's not harder to tune, nor harder to build.. nothing... just more expensive.



Cardomain|Myspace