Last night i went to the track and finally broke into the 13's :-) the only problem i had was tracion. am still using streets tires, which are going to be replaced in the near future. here was my best quarter time for the night and trap speed. horrible 60 foot on both runs.

R/T ... -.020
60' ... 2.333
330 ... 6.092
1/8 ... 9.030
MPH ... 84.04
1000 ... 11.542
1/4 ... 13.669
MPH ... 105.18

R/T ... -.054
60' ... 2.528
330 ... 6.233
1/8 ... 9.161
MPH ... 84.26
1000 ... 11.667
1/4 ... 13.791
MPH ... 106.31

Great times for a 2200 but are you really running 21 psi like your registry says?


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

yes its stable to around 21 psi

congrats on the times man but wow.. 21psi to get there


should have eco swapped it then turbo'd.. 21 psi would be dipping into 11s

Thanks both skilz and Skwirl for the comments....

yes it took a lot of boost to get there. i can't explain why, but its seems to make good power at those boost levels with this setup. compression is fairly low, but am not sure if thats the reason why i need that much boost to get there. but in all, it pulls really hard, with little to no knock retard. am impress myself. when ever this motor decides break, eco swap is next in line.

thanks again

Its a GT30, If I remember correctly, that where the efficiency range starts.


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Do you have any dyno numbers?

hey Taetsch Z-24 i believe your right. the turbo seems to make good power starting from 18 psi and up....anything lower and i don't feel that much power coming from it.

to Aaron, no dyno numbers as yet. am still looking forward to doing so. i am curious myself to see what kind of numbers this car is putting down to the wheels.

Nice job but I"m confused why you went with such a large turbo! Unless you plan on going for a lot more hp, might want to sell that monster and go with a GT28 or something!




12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62

Large?

Spool up should be the same as a T304E.. if not better.... but can flow A LOT more.....

All things considered, the only thing holding him back would be the EMS.........


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Thanks Airtonics
i use to own a T25 GT28RS turbo before, but i find it was not flowing enough for the goal i wanted which was mid to low 13's. it spooled up quickly, but top end was still not enough. so i decided i would go with a GT3071r-WG T25 since my manifold was already a T25 as well. it flows much better than the GT28RS. also better efficency for more power, capable of running higher boost. turbo starts spooling around 2700 rpm and full boost by 4000 rpm. EMS is a big issue cause without a proper tune, i may not see the full potential of this motor. there is only so much anyone can do with an ALPHA-N system.

the only advantage to an ALPHA-N system is that it cannot read boost no matter how high it is. it does not see it, there for a safe tune on the rich side and boost could go as high as 30psi, even higher. only staying on the rich side of course and watch for spark advance as well.
still not the best ECU for tuning.

I'd have to say the JBP Turbo cam is limiting him quite a bit. That is a rather mild grind for such a built motor. It was designed for basically a stock motor and rev limiter with a smaller turbo. Still got the stock cam or can you get one? If so look into a custom regrind, designed for your set-up.

Also look at the tranny he's running, it's a 4T40E. When it was rebuilt, did they use the Raybestos Blue Plate kit? With HPT, you could probably do away with the Autotrans Interceptor. Is the TC a stock replacement 2800 or an aftermarket, such as a Yank? Generally you did the tranny right, so don't sweat this area.

You got a P&Ped head, but you didn't state what size valves you got. Are they stock or the +1mm? If not, look into a set of custom intakes in the +1.5-2 mm (1.79"-1.81") range, see what your cylinder head machinist says he can fit in there. The +1 mm exhausts are just right.

Overall a really good build. You hit the major areas very well, aside from a mild cam. A hotter cam and, if you don't already have them, over sized valves should help.

You should have come to the GMSC Show, we had track night at Orlando Spin World...Opps, Speed World and the Show and Shine at Old Town Kissimmee.

His registry says he has a GT3071R which much faster spooling than the GT3076R which is commonly referred to as the "GT30R". A GT3071R should spool faster than any journal bear T3/TO4E, and almost as fast as one of the larger GT28 models.

Something doesn't add up to me about pushing that much boost and the times you have. With decent head work and a cam that you have that motor should be able to breath well enough for it to flow a lot of cfm @ 21 psi. With a 106 mph trap its safe to say you're making less than 300hp. How high are your shift points set at and what rpm do you make peak power?



- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

I think hes doing alright considering its auto. His 1/8 mile times are more indicative of low-mid 14s. It's probably launching technique/traction. He's making up a lot of ground in the second 1/8th. Plus if he's not launching in the powerband, its gonna be a slow start with a 2200 with 8:1 comp ratio

To the OP, how are you launching?

hey madjack, after you mentioned the cam as a possible limitation, that made me think. is it possible that the cam is not keeping up with the flow from the turbo? not enough lift on the intake and exhaust side? a friend of mines has a custom grind with a higher lift. more of a radical cam and makes more power at lower boost. makes me think that JBO cam is not as good as i thought for high performance :-( i still have the original stock cam that cam with my car.

the tranny was rebuilt after it blew up on a test and tune. i took it to a shop and told them that the car was turbo charged and needed the transmission re-built to handled the power with the best parts available. now am not sure exactly what parts was replace. supposingly better parts than stock. the technician did told me that thicker clutches and new gears was installed. torque converter was rebuilt to stall at 2800 rpms. also modifed the valve body to increase line pressure. tranny does shift much firmer and feels better than stock.
the head is basically stock everything from valves to springs. the only thing done to the head was port and polish. as you mention the other stuff and 1mm oversized valves would have probably help with more flow intake and exhaust. i will keep that in mind if i ever do take the head off again. the information you provided is very usefully and i will consider that on a future head work. thanks. by the way i did not know you were in florida.

i did an estimate using a horsepower calculator of how much horsepower this car could be putting down to the wheels. i figure its around 269whp and 350hp to the crank.....so yes its under 300whp. car weight 2931 with me inside also estimate.
the tranny shift points was set like this
1 to 2 = 5400
2 to 3 = 5800
3 to 4 = 5900
without a dyno, i won't know for sure the peak power, but from what i have observed, i have a good feeling the engine is making more power beyond 5900 rpms.

hey old skool
i launched the car at max stall of 2800rpms, with tire pressure dead at 25 psi and still having a lot of wheel spin...
car will spin right into second gear. that my biggest problem as well.
i was told many times to get better tires, so thats next on the list.
for sure this motor is dead without boost at an 8.1 compression. its extremely slow.....sorry i went that way sometimes. 9.1 is better.
especially for an AUTOMATIC.

just out of curiosity.......
is it possible that having a compression ratio of 8:1, and a head gasket thick as 0.74, could this make compression lower than 8:1?
i did a compression test a while back and as far as i could remember from cyl 1 to 4 compression was between 150 and 148 psi all across.
what do you guys think? still trying to figure out why i have to run such high boost to make good power.

also there are no leaks so far.

The Sleeper wrote:

i did an estimate using a horsepower calculator of how much horsepower this car could be putting down to the wheels. i figure its around 269whp and 350hp to the crank.....so yes its under 300whp. car weight 2931 with me inside also estimate.
the tranny shift points was set like this
1 to 2 = 5400
2 to 3 = 5800
3 to 4 = 5900
without a dyno, i won't know for sure the peak power, but from what i have observed, i have a good feeling the engine is making more power beyond 5900 rpms.

Please forgive me for not knowing the 2200 that well but what are the stock shift points???

By looking at your shift points it almost looks like they are lower than stock, i thought stock the 2200 revved to 6200 rpm. I know the 2200 stock has no top end power but being that you have a hotter cam, head work and are turbocharged i am sure you have extended the usable power band of the motor. Assuming the motor can handle it i'd try changing all the shift points up to around 6500 rpm.

The Sleeper wrote:hey old skool
i launched the car at max stall of 2800rpms, with tire pressure dead at 25 psi and still having a lot of wheel spin...
car will spin right into second gear. that my biggest problem as well.
i was told many times to get better tires, so thats next on the list.
for sure this motor is dead without boost at an 8.1 compression. its extremely slow.....sorry i went that way sometimes. 9.1 is better.
especially for an AUTOMATIC.

You are launching the car way to hard for street tires.

My turbo Cav was a automatic and on street tires if i launched at 2800 rpm under full boost all i would do is burn the tires off the rims lol. My best results were from launching about 1500 rpm where i could keep the manifold pressure at 0 vac and 0 boost. I would still end und with a lot of wheel spin but i was able to pull 2.0 60' times on 17" wheels with street tires. Launching under boost would just make a lot of smoke and launching off idle was slow out of the hole.



- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

The stock rev limit in the 2200s is 6000 rpm, the '97 & older 2.2L's was 6250. I'd say raise the rev limits to 6500 and adjust the fuel and spark trim appropriately. This will also max out your valve springs rpm potential, so be aware of valve float. Look into using a set of the Ford Modular V8 valve springs. the late Crane Cams had a perfect spring, but they went under. Start looking into some other cam/valve spring companies for some possibilities.

The shift points are controlled by the PCM, which can be adjusted with HPT. Raise the shift points about 200-300rpm see if there is any improvement. Also, do as Skilz said try launching at a slightly lower rpm, till you find what works for you car.

If you want to bring the compression back up, try the cometic MLS head Gasket. If the block hasn't been surfaced too much and the pistons at TDC are still a few thousandths under the deck height, then try the .030" gasket. If the piston is zero decked or is above the deck, get a gasket that will net between .035" and .045". This will give you ideal quench to cool the piston tops and increase the CR. Here's your reason to pull the head and get bigger valves, better springs and a hotter cam!

i was looking at my original stock file from HP Tuners.

1 to 2 = 5400
2 to 3 = 5720
3 to 4 = 5400

at the track when i made the 13sec passes, rpms was set exactly this way.

1 to 2 = 5400
2 to 3 = 5720
3 to 4 = 5780
not much different from stock, only from 3 to 4.
i was being conservative because of valve springs being stock. i will try increasing the rpms to 6000 and work my way to 6500 and see how it holds up.
also that idea of launching at lower rpms is not a bad idea. should have though about that in the first place. i was to caught up thinking a harder launch would have gotten me a better 60 foot, but that was not the case....LOL
unfortunately it was the opposite. lots of wheel spin of the line. thanks for the advice both skilz and madjack.
now i see more room for improvements and possible low 13's or high 12's.

If the stock rev limit is 6000 rpm then why are your shift points set so low?


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

i kept it low because of the stock valve springs. also was trying to play it safe and prevent the valves from floating.
btw, am going to play around with the rpms and see what happens.

also from factory, i have no clue why GM would put the shift points so low when the limiter is set to 6000 rpms.

What size a/r is the turbo? Looks like a pretty decent build, but I would have never used gapless rings on an FI motor...



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

hey imphat,

i saw ur post on the boosted section and could not help myself but to post a comment on ur setup. so far the work done to ur motor looks good. am looking forward to see some numbers in the near future. very impressive. it reminds me of my re-built engine and breakin the first time. its a great feeling.

here are the specs for the GT3071R-WG Turbo

Turbine
-Wheel: 56.5mm w/ 84 trim
-Housing: 0.64 a/r

Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim
-Housing: .50 a/r
-Inlet: 4 inch

at the time of the rebuild, i was told gapless rings was better to prevent blowby caused by high compression.

in ur opion, why would you not use gapless rings?
are conventional rings better? just curious.

so far as of today, compression is good.....no problems as yet.