LYC wrote:I own the prior and worked on the secondary..... I've worked on both. I would work on my Benz any day over the KIA. I'd even lay claim to that on my Cavalier. Every car has it's pro's and con's. I've seen your posts and how you do not really care for the Germany side of the automotive industry.

I worked for Benz for nearly 5 years, that's where I have reason to speak about Mercedes the way I do, it was just my experience. And going by my ex-coworkers who have worked for BMW for 20+ years can attest that BMW was no different.
German cars here in the US don't impress me one bit, ESPECIALLY knowing how the rest of the world uses them-- commuter cars. If North America is gullible enough to believe Germany builds only prestigious cars, so be it, that their prerogative .
I will give credit where credit is due. German cars make bank-vault like structures, albeit heavy, but very solid. And not as good as the French, but they make really good diesel engines, that I my self would never mind having, just as long I don't have to use ADBlue Urea injection. Heck on the ML you need 30 gallons of it, at a cost of $20 per liter every 10K miles... ouch.

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Not sure where you found the oven reference, but this is all I could find on it. Even the MB board was stumped with no true answer or reference:

I was at a 11th grade HS field trip to a holocaust museum, I went to school near a Jewish heavy community, so remembrance was everywhere. There were hundreds of US military photos, and few had the Mercedes 3-pointed star, and some said Mercedes-Benz on the side. If I do see it again, I will take a picture. Because data like this should be known, mostly to remove the ignorance in world history.

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Even if they did can you fault a german company for building things for the german nation during a war? GM and Ford built bombers, tanks, and the Enola Gay that dropped the A-bomb on Nagasaki. Mitsubishi built the Zero's (airplanes) that were used to decimate Pearl Harbor. I don't fault any company for supporting their nation, even if they are wrong or lost the war, they felt it an obligation." - REDG (it's a good point, however, I did NOT check his references for accuracy... it's just the point of the subject)

Coming from a person (me) who will not support wars, much less when it is offense instead of defense. I could not disagree with that comment you quoted. I know all sorts of companies supported their country of origin. The difference here, I didn't reference KIA like you did, when in fact the car you drive made items too BBQ humans.

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P.S. - I love your new up and coming car threads I read them all!

I'm glad, seriously. And if I had more time, I would post a lot more, as I get the info directly from the manufacturers. But many times I'm time constraint.
One thing too. You seem like a reasonable person, and I advise you like a good org member. Keep an eye out on your 90degree V6's crank pulley. The pulley are know to separate and cause extensive damage. Any crack, replace immediately . Also keep an ear out on the S/C too, when they start whining out of the ordinary, the bearing will cause extensive destruction on the inside of the S/C. A rebuild might be needed and it will be A LOT cheaper to do then to get a new S/C.





>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

urban wrote:If I'm going to pick on KIA over a coincidental abbreviation, than I might-as-well take a big steamy dump on hood of every benz I pass-by because of this historic tidbit:
"During the Second World War, Mercedes-Benz is known to have exploited more than 30,000 forced workers and prisoners of war, some of whom would eventually strike, and be sent to concentration camps.

The firm avidly supported Nazism and in return received arms contracts and tax breaks that enabled it to become one of the world's leading industrial concerns. (Between 1932 and 1940 production grew by 830 percent.) During the war the company used thousands of slaves and forced laborers including Jews, foreigners, and POWs. According to historian Bernard Bellon (Mercedes in Peace and War, 1990), at least eight Jews were murdered by DB managers or SS men at a plant in occupied Poland. There was a report that Daimler-Benz built mobile poison gas vans, but this has never been corroborated and is doubtful."

BTW. my father was a forced laborer in a german coal mine during WWII. He was lucky to get out alive.... many in the mines died, and the ones in the concentration camps weren't so fortunate. I visited Auschwitz when I was young. It wasn't pretty. The trees by the ovens were massive (apparently from all the ash they dumped into the lake).

I'm sorry to here of your father. Also remember, back in the 1700-1850's (give or take) slavery was ever so legalized in the United States...

If we want to be theoretic here, GM and Ford effectively "killed" many people as well due to the manufacturing of the the wars.

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Alleged Nazi collaboration
Further information: Henry Ford

Other accusations were that the company collaborated with the German Nazi regime and relied on Germany. The German Ford company used slave labor in Cologne between 1941 and 1945 and it had produced military vehicles such as jeeps, planes, and ships used by a fascist regime. Many of these allegations were made in a series of United States lawsuits in 1998. The lawsuit was dismissed in 1999 because the judge concluded "the issues...concerned international treaties between nations and foreign policy and were thus in the realm of the executive branch."[84][85]

Detractors point to Henry Ford's outspoken anti-semitism, including his newspaper, The Dearborn Independent, which published The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They also point to the fact that in 1938, four months after the German annexation of Austria, Ford accepted the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the Nazi regime's highest honor for foreigners before the outbreak of the war.[86]

Defenders of the company argue that the Ford German division, Fordwerke, had been taken over by the Nazi government after it rose to power, claiming that it was not under the company's control, though Henry Ford, according to court records, did stay in touch with the company. Although Ford's initial motivations were anti-war, the company was heavily involved in the United States Allied war effort after the outbreak of war.

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World War II

General Motors produced vast quantities of armaments, vehicles, and aircraft during World War II for both Allied and Axis customers. By the spring of 1939, the German Government had assumed day-to-day control of American owned factories in Germany, but decided against nationalizing them. During the war, the U.S. auto companies continued to be concerned Nazi Germany would nationalize American-owned factories.[citation needed]

GM's William S. Knudsen served as head of U.S. wartime production for President Franklin Roosevelt, who called Detroit as the Arsenal of Democracy. The General Motors UK division, Vauxhall Motors, manufactured the Churchill tank series for the Allies. The Vauxhall Churchill tanks were instrumental in the UK campaigns in North Africa (ironically often being used to attack German logistics units using Opel trucks). Bedford Vehicles manufactured logistics vehicles for the UK military, all important in the UK's land campaigns. In addition, GM was the top manufacturer of U.S. Army 1½ ton 4x4 vehicles.[8]

Nevertheless, while General Motors has claimed its German (Opel) operations were outside its control during World War II, this assertion appears to be contradicted by available evidence. General Motors was not just a car company that happened to have factories in Germany; GM management from the top down had extensive connections with the Nazi Party, both on a business and personal level.[9] During war Opel's Brandenburg facilities produced bombers JU-88, trucks, land mines and torpedo detonators for Nazi Germany.[10] During War years GM declared it had abandoned its Nazi subsidiary , and took a complete tax write-off because of which they have received tax reduction of "approximately $22.7 million" or about $285 billion in 21st-century money. After the War GM collected some $33 million in "war reparations" because the Allies had bombed its German facilities [11] for which they have earlier declared complete tax write-off and received tax reduction.

American GM Vice President (later Colonel) Graeme K. Howard was a committed Nazi, and expressed such views in his book, America and a New World Order. Adolf Hitler awarded GM boss James D. Mooney the Order of Merit of the Golden Eagle for his services to Nazi Germany. General Motors’ internal documents show a clear strategy to profit from their German military contracts even after Germany declared war against America.

Defending the German investment strategy as “highly profitable”, Alfred P. Sloan told shareholders in 1939 GM’s continued industrial production for the Nazi government was merely sound business practice. In a letter to a concerned shareholder, Sloan said that the manner in which the Nazi government ran Germany "should not be considered the business of the management of General Motors...We must conduct ourselves as a German organization. . . We have no right to shut down the plant."[12]

After 20 years of researching General Motors, Bradford Snell stated, "General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland ... Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM-Opel was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM.

My point is, no matter how you look at the history of a nation, there are always skeletons in the closet. Both links are references off Wikipedia. However, if you feel the need to Google further, feel free!

The name "KIA" doesn't prevent me from buying one, I'd just rather not own one due to resale, past experiences (yes, I'm stubborn), and designs.


Josh
SLK 32

LYC wrote: I don't care if you guys buy a KIA, but I'll personally buy either American or German. Not something from Korea that represents Killed In Action from an American standpoint..

LYC wrote:
The name "KIA" doesn't prevent me from buying one, I'd just rather not own one due to resale, past experiences (yes, I'm stubborn), and designs.

My head is spinning. First you were against KIA, in part, because of its name (war association ).
You showed your preference for American and German brands over KIA (I guess because the former were not associated with the war like KIA)

We pointed out Mercedes' (German) WWII crimes, and you just admitted "GM and Ford (American) effectively "killed" many people as well due to the manufacturing of the wars." Weren't you against KIA because of the things the Germans and Americans actually did ( make war machines), but KIA didn't (they made bicycles during the Korean war)? My head is still spinning.





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