This has been discussed before, but now I've experienced it first hand.
I tuned my eco cavalier in the winter when IATs were about 30-50 degrees to an AFR of 13:1. Outside of the mysterious/random dropping of the commanded AFR, it was great. I was within 2-3% of commanded on the WBO2.
Now that its 90 degrees outside, its richer - about 12.5:1. I suppose it's not horrible to have it a little richer when its hot out, but it would be nice to be in control of the parameter that dictates richer with warmer IAT's.
So we can either leave it be, slap on a band aid by rasing the commanded PE AFR (I don't like to do this - I like the commanded to match actual), or retune the VE tables.
I don't really have a point to this post except to share the experience and let everyone know that the system does not totally compensate for temperature changes WRT AFRs
The car needs more fuel when it is cold. Since the tune was done in cold weather, its going to be rich...
I'm pretty sure there is some sort of IAT referenced Cmnd AFR Modifier table HPtuners has not given us. I actually posted about it last night.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=167986#post167986
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Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
If I understand what he is saying is that there is X amount of calibrations per year on X PCM. Therefore they don't have the resources to deal with them all.
Why couldn't they just pick a few calibrations for each model, lets say for 2.2 Ecos they choose 2002 and say, okay if you want these extra tables we have enabled on these select ones, now go find a supported PCM from 02 in this serial range. I would gladly buy another ECU and pay to license it if I could get more functionality.
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Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
BlackEco wrote:If I understand what he is saying is that there is X amount of calibrations per year on X PCM. Therefore they don't have the resources to deal with them all.
I think its just another excuse to push us off.... It has nothing to do with the "bread and butter" AKA, LSx..
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
jmarks82 wrote:The car needs more fuel when it is cold. Since the tune was done in cold weather, its going to be rich...
Yes it needs a greater absolute mass of fuel at any give time when its cold, but there's no reason why the AFR cannot remain constant with changing IAT conditions. The point is there is a PE AFR vs IAT multiplier table that we do not have access to.
If this table does NOT exist, than our PCM is even more worthless than I first thought.
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:BlackEco wrote:If I understand what he is saying is that there is X amount of calibrations per year on X PCM. Therefore they don't have the resources to deal with them all.
I think its just another excuse to push us off.... It has nothing to do with the "bread and butter" AKA, LSx..
Agreed on the other post that HPT shafts the little guy everytime. i'm glad I didn't buy it JUST for the jbody, or I would feel screwed too. There are some "high roller" LNF guys out there who are foaming at the mouth for more tables. For once, GM put together a world class system of hardware and software (hardware = at least 500BHP, software reads ~58PSI absolute and 120lbs/min = ~1300BHP!!!), and we can't get support to properly tune it.
Has anyone been able to look at a licensed copy of EFI Live on a Jbody to see if they possibly support any additional tables. Then we would have absolute proof.
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Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
ya i noticed that too.. retuning my tables since its getting warmer and its running richer..
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
Quote:
Yes it needs a greater absolute mass of fuel at any give time when its cold, but there's no reason why the AFR cannot remain constant with changing IAT conditions. The point is there is a PE AFR vs IAT multiplier table that we do not have access to.
I think the fact that the AFR changes in weather changes proves that there is not a working IAT multi table. I still agree there is other tables we are not seeing.
FU Tuning
kind of a pain to not have access to everything to do with fueling eh?
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
such are the joys of not having a MAF sensor
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
dont complain, there was a time where we couldnt change anything at all
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Rodimus Prime wrote:dont complain, there was a time where we couldnt change anything at all
don't complain? RIIIIIIIGHT. I'm going to get on my knees and suck hpt's nuts for giving us god's gift to tuning. MMMMmmm no. If they charged us half for credits - than maybe...
Rodimus Prime wrote:dont complain, there was a time where we couldnt change anything at all
There was a time when some of us would not have bought into it if we had know there would be no S/C flash support and limited access to tables needed to properly tune the car.
When you buy a MAF referenced standalone made specifically for your car you don't get the same half a5sed kind of support like you do from HPT. Not to mention it is well worth the extra 400 bucks over what you would pay HPT for not dealing with all the headaches and years of waiting.
Lesson learned, moving on now.
Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
BlackEco wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:dont complain, there was a time where we couldnt change anything at all
There was a time when some of us would not have bought into it if we had know there would be no S/C flash support and limited access to tables needed to properly tune the car.
When you buy a MAF referenced standalone made specifically for your car you don't get the same half a5sed kind of support like you do from HPT. Not to mention it is well worth the extra 400 bucks over what you would pay HPT for not dealing with all the headaches and years of waiting.
Lesson learned, moving on now.
Well said. I'm not able to curb my disappointment and anger on this issue so well as you lol
. You also get a free bucket of sand to pound 
I was almost in tears laughing at the "sit and spin" comment.