I just dropped an ecotec (2005) into my 2000 z24. I am very familar with gmsc tune and the 2000-2002 LD9 engine, but when it comes to the ecotec I am a little lost. I will be going turbo in a couple weeks, but I am trying to figure out exactly how I am going to tune it. I have a couple questions:
1)if I get the 2005 ecotec S/C tune from GM my computer is locked and I CANNOT play with the VE, timing, etc?
2)Do most people running turbo's on the eco run with a fake 2.0 bar or 2.5 bar tune?
3)are you running 310cc or 378cc injectors? stock fuel pressure?
4)On the HPT repository I have found a couple tunes for boost, but why a person would use a 1.0 bar map in boost is beyond me...
thanks alot
-Garrett
I should say I am going to run stock internals, and not go over 1.6-1.8 bar.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
1. correct, if you get the sc tune, you are locked for good, no adjustments
2. no we cant fake bars the last i knew.
3. i was running 13psi stock motor with my 440cc injectors and they were just right, but now im upgrading to probably 650's in the next week or so.
4. i wouldnt use a tune repository tune ever. never know what they messed with and its not going to run the same in your car.
By fake a 2 bar I mean, install a 2 bar and do the math on all the map based tables.
Did you just keep a 1.0 bar sensor and use the highest bin for boost timing?
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Yea you can use a 1 bar and still have an ok tune on it. There is only one column in the PE main spark advance tables that you can use to control timing while in boost but thats why people do the fake 2 bar tune. The 2 bar tune can be done but i wouldnt attempt to do a 2.5 or 3.0 bar because of the lost resolution. Do not get the GM reflash either because it will be locked out from using hp tuners on it.
ge_forcez22 wrote:I just dropped an ecotec (2005) into my 2000 z24. I am very familar with gmsc tune and the 2000-2002 LD9 engine, but when it comes to the ecotec I am a little lost. I will be going turbo in a couple weeks, but I am trying to figure out exactly how I am going to tune it. I have a couple questions:
1)if I get the 2005 ecotec S/C tune from GM my computer is locked and I CANNOT play with the VE, timing, etc?
2)Do most people running turbo's on the eco run with a fake 2.0 bar or 2.5 bar tune?
3)are you running 310cc or 378cc injectors? stock fuel pressure?
4)On the HPT repository I have found a couple tunes for boost, but why a person would use a 1.0 bar map in boost is beyond me...
thanks alot
-Garrett
I should say I am going to run stock internals, and not go over 1.6-1.8 bar.
1. The gm reflash is locked.
2.The eco is stuck being tuned TPS vs RPM unlike the LD9 which has the function for MAP vs RPM via reflash.
With a s/c set up tps vs rpm is fine, but with a turbo set up alot of eco guys combine HPT with the use of an FMU with great success.
For timing in boost refer to the 105 kpa cell.
There is no way to make tune your fuel via a map sensor with the eco + hpt,
fake 2 bars are a waste of time, its only timing control in boost.
3. I was running the lsj green injectors, with the 2002 fuel rail they are direct swap stock harness as well. I ran stock fuel pressure since I was working off of the injector constant in HPT.
4. Don't used uploaded tunes. Feel free to download one just to review and give you a feel for eco tps vs rpm tuning.
Gary, you said you put it in a 2000 Z24 shell, which means you still have the LD9 PCM, correct? So, I'll ask this for probably the 20th time...Why can't someone just use the LD9 SC reflash PCM on an ECO swap?
. Both engines share the same reluctor, so unless there is a major difference in the offset synch notch, I really don't see how it could be complicated at all. The only minor difference I can think of is maybe the knock sensor frequency response circuitry in the PCM. Other than that, everything else should be straight forward.
I have no signiture
Garrett...not Gary...my apologies.
I have no signiture
Whalesac - When the ecotec is swapped into the 2000-2002 J, the main engine bay wiring harness is unplugged and you use the entire 2003+ eco wiring harness and PCM.
Question about the FMU, are guys still using the BEGI 2025 adjustable, or are they going with the 6:1, 4:1 Vortech style.... it's been years since I had a FMU, lol.
-Garrett
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
ge_forcez22 wrote:Whalesac - When the ecotec is swapped into the 2000-2002 J, the main engine bay wiring harness is unplugged and you use the entire 2003+ eco wiring harness and PCM.
Question about the FMU, are guys still using the BEGI 2025 adjustable, or are they going with the 6:1, 4:1 Vortech style.... it's been years since I had a FMU, lol.
-Garrett
...because that's the ONLY way to do it...or because that's the way PJ did it? Even he has conceded that HPT sucks for tuning turbo Ecotec's. I'm not trying to force anyone's hand here. All I'm saying is that someone really should try this. It would make a world of difference for Ecotec's
...but since no one has taken me up on the idea or given any legitimate answer in the past few years, I guess no one will, so I'll be silent on the issue from now on.
I have no signiture
As it has been said do not fake a 2 bar map. Wasting time. If you go to big boost then I would run a 2 bar map, so you have more tuning fields in boost (for timing only). It is not hard to have a good tune on a ECotec with just HPT.
I would not run a FMU either.
I would make sure you have a upgraded fuel pump.
FU Tuning
FMU and larger injectors are not bad up to about 15 PSI boost, when done right with the correct setup. It's very proven on Ecotec J-body turbos.
If you wish to go more than that, consider a more sophisticated solution, such as our PortFueler setup...proven to 540 WHP and 10 second passes. It offers correct proportional fueling at all RPM and boost points, plus superb street manners. Best of both worlds!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
^^ sounds good, I only want to run low 200whp,and a pretty low amount of pressure. I am just making my winter beater more fun. I have an SRT-4 for a summer car right now, it's actually for sale if any one is interested, lol.
I'll look into getting an FMU, and have been looking at 378cc or ford green tops, I'll see what I can pick up cheap,
-Garrtt
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
IMO and adjustable FMU is a necessity for tuning a low boost eco. Don't be afraid of bigger injectors incase you decide to make more power later. It's quite easy to get them dialed in, at least upto about 600cc/min from my experience. Ford green tops would be cake, and give you some head room.
Faking a 2 bar for low 200whp is a waste of time, as mentioned refer to your 105kpa column for tuning spark in boost.
The only proven use of the eco s/c reflash on a turbo set up is on a stock boost saab kit. Those two seem to play very well together, but otherwise you just don't know.
Too Whiney wrote:Quote:
IMO and adjustable FMU is a necessity for tuning a low boost eco
it is?
Well, I'm not going to get into the lean/rich argument, but an FMU gives you your best chance at getting the part-throttle/part-boost areas of the map dialed in properly for fuel (read as - not too lean whatever that may mean to you). Turbochargers are load dependent, but not TPS dependent, so no matter what you do with our VE tables, your not going to get every situation dialed in properly. If you can live with a little rich in the lower gears and a little lean in the higher gears, than i guess you can do without an FMU.
Of course when you are running high boost pressures, an FMU becomes useless because you can't multiply the fuel pressure enough to cover the whole boost range while staying within the reasonable pressure limits of the fuel system.
NOW, my experiences with n/a tuning lead me to believe that no matter what you do, if the stock ecu is involved, your going to have to constantly retune with the seasons. Case in point - i had my VE tables dialed in very well to less than 2% afr error between commanded and actual. The weather gets colder and I'm lean... HPT failed to give us the IAT multiplier that affects how much extra fuel is added with colder air, and on a non-stock car, that multiplier needs to be modified...
Sounds good, I will likely only run between 6-8 psi like stated earlier. I just want my winter beater to have a little more power for when we head out snowboarding in the mountains. I already Hptuned my car to disable the VATS, and fan temps, so some VE and 105kpa timing tuning won't be a big deal.
What brand FMU are guys using for adjustability? Is it still the Car-tech (begi)
-Garrett
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
I can set you up with a proven FMU and injector combo, same as we use on our turbosystems. I can also add our proven in-line booster pump, also same as on our turbosystems.
These items have taken numerous stock engined Ecotec J's deep into the 12-second range, with 230-270 WHP at your disposal. PM me for details, and thanks!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
I boost, therefore I am wrote:I can set you up with a proven FMU and injector combo, same as we use on our turbosystems. I can also add our proven in-line booster pump, also same as on our turbosystems.
These items have taken numerous stock engined Ecotec J's deep into the 12-second range, with 230-270 WHP at your disposal. PM me for details, and thanks!
I have some ford green tops in the garage from when my engine was turboed a couple years ago, and my fuel tank still has a Walbro 255 intank. I just need to pick up a FMU unit. Any idea what brand I should pick up? (I am in calgary, and Mopac has a tonne of different styles in stock.
-Garrett
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
If you are going to do a fMU I would do a adjustable one. Car-tech is a pain in my little bit of experience with it.
FU Tuning
ge_forcez22 wrote:I boost, therefore I am wrote:I can set you up with a proven FMU and injector combo, same as we use on our turbosystems. I can also add our proven in-line booster pump, also same as on our turbosystems.
These items have taken numerous stock engined Ecotec J's deep into the 12-second range, with 230-270 WHP at your disposal. PM me for details, and thanks!
I have some ford green tops in the garage from when my engine was turboed a couple years ago, and my fuel tank still has a Walbro 255 intank. I just need to pick up a FMU unit. Any idea what brand I should pick up? (I am in calgary, and Mopac has a tonne of different styles in stock.
-Garrett
Unless they stock ours, I would not be able to assist...we customize them for rate of gain specific to our injector sizing. Good luck with it though!
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
how close are yours to the BEGI 2025?
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Different rate of gain, along with some other tweaks.
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com
