this is for
dragracemyz24 but anyone else can answer if they would like or know the answer. i was reading a post yesterday titled as Opinion: should i go with SAFC. and i came across a part that dragracemyz24 said.
Quote:
-I dont HAVE to have a fmu if I go with an safc right? correct just bigger injectors and a fuel pump.
-And I can use an fmu with out a safc at or below 7 lbs, right?
correct but still reccomend injectors and a pump. lol But if I go above 7 psi I would need the safc and timing retarded right?
-sort of. if you go above 7 psi you will need timing retard of some sort whether it be a reflashed stock ecu or msd or emanage .
-The safc is just for fuel and is a good devise for 10psi and up or any amount of boost . but make sure you get big enough injectors and upgrade pump for this setup also. your stock pump will be ok for 7psi I would think. ITs up to you though. To me the nice thing about the safc is the ability to get big ass injectors and be able to cut them at idle so you aren't running rich as hell. And then you still have alot of adjustability points to work with. Hope i helped.
so i guess my question is im going to be running 6-7psi outa a T3 maybe more depending on the trim because i havent ordered a turbo yet. so the SAFC does what the Emanage does right? so what your saying is i dont really need any ecu upgrade of any kind just the injectors and a fuel pump (which both i do have) so i can do away wit a emange or a SAFC or a reflashed ECU if i do my injectors and pump. thats what i got outa that post and i just want to make sure thats right because i see a lot of people on this forum that dont have ECU upgrades and run turbos on their cavy with no problem and i have people telling me i need them so thats what i was confused with. this is for a Z24 by the way. so please answer only if you know i dont want guesses... thanks everyone.
the SAFC just allows you to adjust your fuel curve. it does not have boost sensativity on it so you have to retune for more / less boost. you will still want a fuel pressure regulator
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Just along the lines of the ECU upgrade:
There is none. Not yet anyway. Until either I or HP tuners comes out with the software we are both working on, there is nothing you can do to your PCM if you have a pre-00. The only people who can upgrade thier ECU's are the 2000-2002 2.4L's, and the only option they have is the supercharger reflash. So whoever is telling you that you need an ECU upgrade, really doesn't know the J-Body market all that well, because there simply is no upgrade that you can do.
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ok i know i said ecu upgrade i really ment like the Emanage becaue i knew we had no upgrades but what should i do when i turbo it should i run a piggy back unit or at 7psi i really dont need it as long as i get the injectors and the pump along withh the fuel regulator?
My setup consist of: fuel pump, 450cc injectors from an eclipse, a bosch FPR (it is 1 to 1) and the safc.
I don't have any piggy back or FMU and my fuel mixture is between 11.0-12.0 (wideband) with 8 psi from a T3/T4.
This setup work for me, so I recomend it to you.
Shifted (KickAzz) wrote:Just along the lines of the ECU upgrade:
There is none. Not yet anyway. Until either I or HP tuners comes out with the software we are both working on, there is nothing you can do to your PCM if you have a pre-00. The only people who can upgrade thier ECU's are the 2000-2002 2.4L's, and the only option they have is the supercharger reflash. So whoever is telling you that you need an ECU upgrade, really doesn't know the J-Body market all that well, because there simply is no upgrade that you can do.
You can get a reflash for 03 and up cavaliers and sunfires through RSM racing in Mississauga, Ontario for superchargers. I've also heard of turbo reflashes done by them in the past.
http://www.rsmracing.com
Shifted (KickAzz) wrote:Just along the lines of the ECU upgrade:
There is none. Not yet anyway. Until either I or HP tuners comes out with the software we are both working on, there is nothing you can do to your PCM if you have a pre-00. The only people who can upgrade thier ECU's are the 2000-2002 2.4L's, and the only option they have is the supercharger reflash. So whoever is telling you that you need an ECU upgrade, really doesn't know the J-Body market all that well, because there simply is no upgrade that you can do.
Shifted,
how come you dont have much faith in the JBP flash?
Yes i know that it is "untested", but ill tell you how good it works in a couple of weeks
Yes, I don't put a lot of faith in it, mainly because its expensive, and they require you to send them the PCM. I know why they need it, and I know why they have no clue how to get around the GM seed/key security, its because they actually desolder the EEPROM from the board and change the fuel maps.
Hell, I can do that right now if you wanted me to. Biggest issue with them though, is you need to send the PCM back and forth until you get a workable setup, which just through postage alone could cost you hundreds of dollars and months of your time. By then the racing season will be over and the car will be back in the garage again
Big difference between what they offer and what I'm developing, it takes so much more effort to do what I'm (or even HP tuners is promising) to do than to do that.
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I also wrote this on that post.
But if I go above 7 psi I would need the safc and timing retarded right?
sort of. if you go above 7 psi you will need timing retard of some sort whether it be a reflashed stock ecu or msd or emanage
I kind of take this back. PSI does not matter really. different turbos run different cfm's. So you need a wideband or dyno to effectively see how your a/f ratio's are. Not everyone has retarded the timing above 7 psi. They made up for no timing mods by adding more fuel, higher octane, and monitoring it properly. I think josh ran like 15 psi on his eco for a long time without any timing mods. and just used a EGT guage to monitor. But its up to you. The safc is just for the fuel. And if you do decide to use it and want to up the boost. You will need to tweek it again. that is why it is key to have a way to monitor your a/f ratio.
I am no genius when it comes to tuning. But I do know that fuel and timing are the most important things in my opinion when it comes to boosted applications. There may be a certain amount of proper timing to pull per psi but that is no exact science either. I rely on the gm charger reflash to pull it for me and noone knows how much it really pulls. as far as fuel. I currently use the gm charger 310s but am upping them to probably 440cc < which the computer does not like but thats where the SAFC will come into play. you can alter your base pressure on large injectors. And you mine as well spend the extra 120 bucs and buy the walbro pump too. I hope to make a post real soon once my car is back together. I want to make it very informative with dyno sheets and mods listed so people know what to base there setups off of. . The more post like this, the better. Trial and error can take you very far. I wish you the best and hope you figure out what is the best combination of things for your setup. email me if you have any ?'s ....
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/dragmyz24/shoppedcav2.jpg">
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Shifted (KickAzz) wrote:Yes, I don't put a lot of faith in it, mainly because its expensive, and they require you to send them the PCM. I know why they need it, and I know why they have no clue how to get around the GM seed/key security, its because they actually desolder the EEPROM from the board and change the fuel maps.
Hell, I can do that right now if you wanted me to. Biggest issue with them though, is you need to send the PCM back and forth until you get a workable setup, which just through postage alone could cost you hundreds of dollars and months of your time. By then the racing season will be over and the car will be back in the garage again
Big difference between what they offer and what I'm developing, it takes so much more effort to do what I'm (or even HP tuners is promising) to do than to do that.
damn,
i didnt know that. How much could you do it for, shifted?
I could do it, but I don't want to. None of what I've done with the files I have is tested yet, and until I have it tested I don't want to risk it. Hopefully soon though I'll be to the point where I can sell something, there'll be a post about it I'm sure. Looking at 3 months before I can even think about it though, it costs a lot of money and time to develop these things, and I won't sell or produce something that is untested.
If you watch the website under my sig (I think you've joined), you'll be able to know where I'm at and when I'm ready to start collecting test cases.
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dragracemyz24...thanks for the great post because those were basically the answers to my ? and ill even keep you updated on my progress along with everyone else prolly on this same thread so look back in about a month or so. but this was probably the best responses i have ever gotten thank you everyone and dragracemyz24. i will def email if more ?'s come up. its just hard cuz Cavaliers are such good cars i love them but when it comes to turboing them its so much harder because they make so little for how big we want to go. everyone in the area is used to honda tuning and crap lilek that so when it comes to a cavalier going on a forum is the best way. so thank you everyone and i will keep posted like i said not only to post but to also help lead other in the right direction. ill do the same as waht Dragracemyz24 said with dyno sheets and mod listings and try to get as detailed as i can because i kno how frusterating this is to turbo and ask ?'s and get answers liek SEARCH, i hate how people do it you can jsut search cuz sometimes im looking for an answer that no one has answered so searching does no good. but thanx again and if u have more info then posted...POST lol thanx
so then what u guys are sayin is that i should be able to run 7psi depending on trim of turbo with:
- larger injectors
-a larger fuel pump
-SAFC-2
-And maybe a FMU or the bosch FPR
-And of course the other goodies that go along with it front mount etc, etc.
-EGT gauge for monitering purpose
-a plug upgrade of some kind (if so whats my best bet)
this sucks cuz im not car stupid im just boost stupid 
lol..boosting is a new thing to me or atleast boosting a car that isnt turboed stock. im used to giving information so its sucks asking
with those things i should be able to run boost safely? (-oh and the EGT (which i was getting anyways) so i can moniter. ) i have a place that will tune for me they have the dyno so tuning shouldnt be an issue and they are very well known for tuning piggy back units and also have done Many SAFC and SAFC-2 units,emanage u name it they have done it. some may have heard depending on how far you live from connecticut (Bristol Dyno) but feel free to add to my little list or subtract. becuase u guys/gals have been great with ur directing me in the path i should be in. so thanks again and keep up the great info lol
another thing also since its a universal unit they dont make any for like certain cars right so i cant be sold one that is made for a honda. im gettin a deal on an integra forum my friend got his 210shipped brand new so hes gonna hook me up but its not like those are for integra only right? please get back if anyone sees this asap so i can buy!! thanx
Ok, I see some problems here. A SAFC will not give you enough fuel without a FMU. You need some way of raising fuel pressure when under boost. Adjustable FPR's you set to a limit like 30psi-60psi. SAFC are not boost sensitive as stated before. If they are on a car that was a factory boosted car, a SAFC is great for finer tuning. using it with the suopercharger porgram can be nice, because it has a 2 bar map sensor to read boost and increase fuel pressure. Also for 6-7 psi stock fuel pump should be fine as well.
FU Tuning
oh i was going to run a FMU but the FPR is also needed? i knew i needed the FMU and the SAFC2 i wanted to also get srry i didnt state that i was doing the FMU. so i should be fine with the FMU, SAFC2, and larger injectors? that should be enough fuel at 7psi?
i have another question about the SAFC-II. Bristol Dyno and I are doing all my turbo work and set up. is the SAFC-II much harder to install in a Cavy then other cars? cuz they said see if you can find out how its installed to what wires and all that crap cuz the have never done it on a cavalier. they could figure it out but it would be much easier if i could find out. is there anything i should kno? thanx
