Well I've been posting lots trying to find out about, and explore every avenue of this swap. I just want to make sure I do it right and not F anything up. I have been told I can use my stock PCM from my sunfire (97) with the 2.3 HO from a 1990 Beretta GTZ, by using HP Tuners.

First off, how much re-wiring would I have to do to the PCM or engine bay to make the 2.3 plug into the 2.4 PCM.

How many things would have to change on the PCM to get this engine to run. Would it be basically the same as the 2.4 tune or is a completely new tune required?

Has anybody attempted this yet?

Thanks,
-Chris


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No need for rewiring. You use the same harness. Some plug don't get used IE: EGR, cam sensor, ...


Gilles
2.3 Ho

so far i like this idea lol, thanks Gilles.

Shifted if your out there, is there anything you suggest, or any perameters you know of that will have to change in the PCM to run the HO? or any other info you may have about this?




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As far as parameters? Rev limiter...Low RPM VE and High RPM VE, take of EGR trouble codes. I am sure there is more, but those are the obvious ones.

you'll need to change the injector constant for the HO injectors and scale all fuel tables and account for the higher redline. I think there is even a constant for engine displacement. I have the software but the car isnt together so havent used it yet really..



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

so basicly the car should "run" on the stock 97 tune, but it will need alot of fine tuning to get it running to drivable standards. is this correct? or will it even start on the 97 pcm.

any other input or advice welcome and greatly apreciated. This seems like the way I will be going.


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I'm not sure it'll work... The 2.4 ECU requires a cam signal or it goes into limp mode. I'm not sure its one of the DTC's you can turn off or not, but its something to look into.





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what about using that saturn cam sync (i think thats what its called...) with it, would that solve that problem?


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I believe it was Jrobz23 who told me this before and if I remember correctly, he also said you can disable the cam sensor in Hp Tuners and it will run in batch mode.


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Doesnt matter, without the cam signal, the car will run on batch fire, which wont run very good.

is there a way to make the cam sensor work on the 2.3?


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Any luck on finding out if the cam sensor or DTC can just be turned off? or any other ways around this problem? I don't want to buy the program just to find out it wont work properly, know what I mean?

thanks again


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the MSD Saturn Cam Sync Generator works just fine on the Ecos (which have a Saturn style cam sync signal and a similar ecu to the 2k+ 2.4's), but no it has not yet been tested on a 2.4 or 2.3. I will be using this in the future and would bet money that it'd work, but no I cannot 100% promise you it will. The car will run on a stock 2.4 tune (use the 2.4 injectors until you tune it btw) but in batch/limp mode not well/optimal. I wouldn't rev it very high at all without a proper tune for sure.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

Before you spend dime one or do anything to your car know this process in your sleep. Know the differences bewteen the engines and what those mean. Read up on HPT as much as possible and even look at tunes, tuning, variable changing and such. Know this whole swap before you do it.. this is not a small mod or a quick change. Mad props are in order when your done.

BTW this is the way I would/will do the swap, but you are not me, and I would not want you to get into something you'll regret later because of my advice however sound I think it is.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

That is very true, thats why im on here asking a million questions lol. I am trying to get my knowledge base up before i start. As of now I have learned alot because of the people helping on this site and am grateful for that.

and believe me, i know this isn't going to be an easy swap. but building a car shouldn't be easy, if it was easy, why bother. This is a challenge for me that will pay of big in the end I think.

Even if the cam sync doesnt work. Im sure there is a way to make it work. Im not too sure how that cam sensor works, if its read off notches in the cam or whatnot but I can have the cam machined if i have to in order to make the cam sensor work (again if its possible). I'll have to figure this out more when i actually pull the 2.3

ok so heres what we have so far:

1) cam sensor may be a problem.
2)Tuning Low RPM VE and High RPM VE
3) take of EGR trouble codes
4) change injector constant for the HO injectors
5) scale all fuel tables and account for the higher redline
6) change engine displacement

Anything else anyone can think of?


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you'll also need to adjust the timing for sure. lots of tuning..

power steering will also be a obstical. my plan was to convert to the HO power steering setup. remember this, some N-bodies have the steering rack high up (the 93 where I got my trans was high) and some have it down low like our J's. grab the setup off the down low N body or any identical one (not sure of all the options here).

Also another thing to note is exhaust emissions control. your car will be illegal after this swap is done. I dont know where you live, but it effects some more than others. tampering is the removal or rendering in-operative any emissions control device (in you case EGR). to remove EGR is to "tamper." also you cant put in a more pollutive motor. so If your in an emissions control area your guilty of 2 counts of tampering after this *ouch*

just some ideas I had. good luck man! we may be talking much more in the future if I ever make up my damn mind



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

Emissions are not a problem here. we have no Emissions testing. in order to drive your car legally it must be able to stop, and you must have a good windshield.. thats about it for here lol.

so how is your HO swap coming along Jrob? is your motor all built and ready to throw in? im sure your further in the game than me. i havent even taken the motor apart yet, too busy. So I have a feeling i will be talking to you about this stuff and more in the next few months. hope you dont mind but you've help ALOT so far and i do appreciate it! after all is said and done we'll have to hit up a track and put some numbers down.

thanks again



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lol my motor swap on this car is not even planned yet. my red cav (one in my sig) was gonna get the HO and the works (I had the torsen already ), but bad crap happened and I had to sell it all. I may still swap one into my white Z but we'll see. I may go Eco as well. I've done more research on the HO swap, so I gotta still do all the grunt work to figure out all the stuff for the Eco swap. I don't wanna stick with the 2.4 for long. they are crazy expensive around here ($800+). I'd like Eco merely for the fact that they are dirt cheap and low miles and everywhere..

btw If the Saturn jobby doesn't work, you can run the car its batch mode or rig the cam tower and a machined cam to work.

yeah man any help I can be, you got it.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

JRobZ, hey, I need to talk to you!!! I will PM you.

thats what i will do then, i have the time so ill make sure its done right.... but i cant wait anymore i want it now! oh well.

any other problems I may have with using this PCM on the 2.3???


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can you take the cams out of the 2.4 cam housings and put the quad cams in the 2.4 housings? would they BOTH fit? and i think i noticed that only 1 side of the cam housing has a sensor for the 2.4. am i wrong?

the intake side has the sensor, and the power steering drive setup is different. Frankly the 2.3 is just a better motor for performance. More options, and better suited for high power.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

How does the Cam Sensor work? is it similar to the crank sensor with notches taken out of the crank and a magnetic sensor that picks up position?? if it is, can't I just machine some notches in the HO cam so the sensor from the 2.4 is useable on the 2.3?? I know that the notches will have to be in exactlyy the same place, but in theory, will this work?


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the Quad4 came with a Cam sensor housing in the last years of it's life...My motor has a cam sensor on it, I don't use it for obvious reasons (OBD1). Find the cam tower off a 2.3L auto from 95-ish and it will have the cam sensor wount on it. the cam however, that's another story.

does the cam sensor read the notches in the cam similar to the crank? if so, what about relocating the sensor off say the powersteering drive? or relocating it elsewhere, possibility?


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