I ordered some LED tail lamps on Ebay about a week ago; they arrived today. I tried installing them on my 2000 Cavalier, but had a peculiar problem: Depending on which way I turned them, one of the beams (low/high) would work, while the fuse that powers the other would blow. For instance, if I got it so the turn signals & hazard lights worked, then they would blow when I turned on the headlights / parking lights. If I got them to work with the parking lights, then it would blow the fuse for the turn signal / hazards. I am really confused by this -- the lamps draw about 1W high / 1/2W low. The factory lamp ddraws about 6W low, not sure about high because my power supply may not be strong enough but at least 18 watts. They were blowing 20-amp fuses!
Is it just that the flasher does not like the low-power bulbs (i.e. should I get a new flasher?). If that is the case, do I need one flasher or 2? Any other thoughts about what it might be? The lights are nice and bright when they work, but I can't give up one setting to get the other (for now I've replaced the blown fuses and put the regular bulbs back in).
Ok... first question, are these direct replacement bulbs, or a complete LED tail unit?
To answer the flasher question, J bodies are a 5 pin flasher. As of right now there isn't a compatible 5 pin LED flasher, so the option at the moment is using
load resistors The eBay store I just linked to is one that I personally recommend. I have purchased all my LED bulbs from them (and on the plus side, they are local for me, so I can pick-up locally). The other option is some clever rewiring to use a 3 pin flasher...
It is being tossed around, sort-of, that a
flasher from an F-150 will work, the problem at this point is obtaining a flasher pin-out for the Fords.
To clarify, these were replacement 3157 bulbs. They appear to work just fine, do not short circuit under load, etc. For some reason the car just doesn't like them.
When I was looking for more information about the bulbs I happened to find this web site that has some flasher units. Any idea if the 5-pin they have is compatible? I'll send them an e-mail to find out as well.
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm
If anyone knows how the flasher actually functions I might be able to build one -- I have a little experience with electronic circuit design, soldering, etc.
PYROManeyakk wrote:I ordered some LED tail lamps on Ebay about a week ago; they arrived today. I tried installing them on my 2000 Cavalier, but had a peculiar problem: Depending on which way I turned them, one of the beams (low/high) would work, while the fuse that powers the other would blow. For instance, if I got it so the turn signals & hazard lights worked, then they would blow when I turned on the headlights / parking lights. If I got them to work with the parking lights, then it would blow the fuse for the turn signal / hazards. I am really confused by this -- the lamps draw about 1W high / 1/2W low. The factory lamp ddraws about 6W low, not sure about high because my power supply may not be strong enough but at least 18 watts. They were blowing 20-amp fuses!
Is it just that the flasher does not like the low-power bulbs (i.e. should I get a new flasher?). If that is the case, do I need one flasher or 2? Any other thoughts about what it might be? The lights are nice and bright when they work, but I can't give up one setting to get the other (for now I've replaced the blown fuses and put the regular bulbs back in).
Get load-resistors off of ebay. Here's the link.
Velocity LED Load Resistors I used these for the front turn signals so I could use LEDs. You might still blow a fuse once in a while when putting the bulbs in if you put them in the wrong way. I don't have load resistors for the LEDs I put for my backup lights. Sometimes I get lucky and put them in the right way the first time. If it blows I just change the fuse, pull the bulb out, turn it around and put it back in and it's fine. Once you have them working your fuses shouldn't blow. I have all my exterior and interior lights as LEDs except for my gauge cluster, headlights, fog lights, and tail lights. I'm going to do the tails soon but Christmas is comin' around the corner and I gotta spend money on presents for now, lol. Those resistors are really easy to install and I didn't cut any wires which was nice. If you need any help just messege me if you have any questions.
My Fquick Page
PYROManeyakk wrote:
When I was looking for more information about the bulbs I happened to find this web site that has some flasher units. Any idea if the 5-pin they have is compatible? I'll send them an e-mail to find out as well. http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm
Hold off till this Friday and I'll order one to find out (my payday)
I would first check to make sure the pins on the bulbs didn't cross when you installed them. That could cause the fuse to blow.
Jason C. wrote:Get load-resistors off of ebay. Here's the link. Velocity LED Load Resistors I used these for the front turn signals so I could use LEDs. You might still blow a fuse once in a while when putting the bulbs in if you put them in the wrong way.
Same link I posted
The side-firing ones I put up front, put one in backwards and when I went to test it, my parking lights were flashing on and off w/ the flasher.
I've tried turning the bulbs both ways, to no avail. Will the load resistors make the difference between blowing and not blowing? I guess it would make sense if it's blowing because the flasher's bad bulb detection is getting confused (power is flowing but resistance is very low).
The main thing I don't like about the idea of the resistors is the large amount of heat they will create. I don't want my car catching on fire, nor do I want to have to run wires all over the place to get the resistors away from the cloth. Of course a bigger resistor would work, but bigger resistor == more money. If the F-150 flasher is inexpensive maybe I can buy one and figure out the pin-outs. Can't be too difficult with the tools I have. That brings back another question though -- for the flasher, do you need one or 2 (i..e one for each side or one altogether)?
I sent them an e-mail to ask. If the pins all provide the same function, then the worst-case is that the pins don't line up, in which case you'd just need to make some jumper wires that will allow you to change the pin orientation (don't even need to fire up the soldering iron for that!) The price isn't that bad too ($20)
The load resistors keep you from having "blinkers on crack"
And yes, I agree w/ you on the heat that the resistors put out, especially w/ my front passenger turn signal being so close to the evap cannister.
They are installed close to the bulb, jumpering the pos and negative wires, you would need one for each turn signal (4 if doing the whole car)
The only other thing that I could think of is that the sockets might not be liking you, or you got bad LED bulbs (which, knowing electronics, can happen from time to time)
Kardain wrote:The load resistors keep you from having "blinkers on crack"
And yes, I agree w/ you on the heat that the resistors put out, especially w/ my front passenger turn signal being so close to the evap cannister.
They are installed close to the bulb, jumpering the pos and negative wires, you would need one for each turn signal (4 if doing the whole car)
The only other thing that I could think of is that the sockets might not be liking you, or you got bad LED bulbs (which, knowing electronics, can happen from time to time)
I looked at the ford F150 flasher, and the pins look the same as the one on the site I linked to. I was going to try to take the plug off of mine and see what it looks like but it's in a really tight spot, and it's pitch black outside and honestly I'm not feeling well enough to do the whole bend-over-backwards thing to get to it. Maybe tomorrow morning, or after work, or later this week when I do my audio upgrades.
I may try removing one of the lamp sockets from the car tomorrow and do a little in-house testing. It really seems like a short circuit, and thinking back I did notice that one of the sockets was very warm after installing the bulb. I can't imagine how they would be shorting but maybe once I get a better look at the socket I can figure it out.
By the way, do you have a wiring diagram for the Cavalier flasher? If so it probalby wouldn't be too hard to adapt it to the ford-type one.
I had the same problem It seems are cars cannot handle the LED bulb setup. I had seen somewhere there was a GM specific 3157 LED tail light but did not even bother to try it out.
2009 Ford Mustang V6
Mine is working just fine, though. That's the odd thing.
I got a response back from the guy at autolumination.com -- he said that the 5-pin flasher works in the Ford F-150 (therefore the chart they have for pin-outs is the one for ford F-150) and also he is "about 99% sure" that the pins also match up for the Cavalier / GM. I will probably unhook my flasher module today and look at the plug. If it looks right I may order one of those electronic flashers in the next week and try installing it.
Kardain wrote:Mine is working just fine, though. That's the odd thing.
Same here. They were a pain with the fuses until I got the resistors. Now they work with no problem.
My Fquick Page
The01Cav wrote:I had seen somewhere there was a GM specific 3157 LED tail light but did not even bother to try it out.
Ding ding ding!! You are correct. The way the 4 pins are wired are different on the GM specific 3157 LED bulbs. I "think" it has to do with where the assumption was made to where ground (negative) is on the leads.
Also just an FYI...it is highly doubtful that anyone can really see your tail lights anymore with standard 3157 LED bulbs in there. They just don't light up the entire lens like they need to. They usually are very intense directly behind the LEDs, but almost aren't visible to other cars. I had some in for about 2 weeks before I gave up on them. I had too many cars about hit me and several of my friends complained that if hadn't had a 3rd brake light, they would have never known I had hit my brakes.
Jackass wrote:The01Cav wrote:I had seen somewhere there was a GM specific 3157 LED tail light but did not even bother to try it out.
Ding ding ding!! You are correct. The way the 4 pins are wired are different on the GM specific 3157 LED bulbs. I "think" it has to do with where the assumption was made to where ground (negative) is on the leads.
Also just an FYI...it is highly doubtful that anyone can really see your tail lights anymore with standard 3157 LED bulbs in there. They just don't light up the entire lens like they need to. They usually are very intense directly behind the LEDs, but almost aren't visible to other cars. I had some in for about 2 weeks before I gave up on them. I had too many cars about hit me and several of my friends complained that if hadn't had a 3rd brake light, they would have never known I had hit my brakes.
I have non-GM specific bulbs and the pins are fine. A 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157... that's an industry standard bulb.
Chances are, with the LED bulbs being lower draw than an incandescent, its popping the fuses by blinking too fast...
I agree w/ the LED tail bulb replacement, though. they sit too far back in the housing. I'll swap my 4th/5th brake lights (converted reverse lights to brake) to the standard housing tomorrow for a pic example in the daytime (in case anyone else is planning this).
Kardain wrote:I have non-GM specific bulbs and the pins are fine. A 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157... that's an industry standard bulb.
Not a true statement by anymeans. A standard incandescent 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157. Incandescent bulbs don't care where negative and positive come in at. As long as the circuit is completed, they light up. However a LED 3157 does care where negative and positive come in. Some 3157 LED bulbs will have both pins on one side designed for negative, while others will have one on each side of the bulb. It depends on how the manufactuer of the vehicle wired the sockets. If you use the wrong type of 3157 LED bulb, you end up with the two negative pins on the bulb shorting across a positive and a negative connection on the socket, blowing your fuse.
I bet if you took your LED bulbs, measured resistance across each of the pins, your results won't match those of the original poster. The two pins that have no resistance will be in different locations.
Jackass wrote:Kardain wrote:I have non-GM specific bulbs and the pins are fine. A 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157... that's an industry standard bulb.
Not a true statement by anymeans. A standard incandescent 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157. Incandescent bulbs don't care where negative and positive come in at. As long as the circuit is completed, they light up. However a LED 3157 does care where negative and positive come in. Some 3157 LED bulbs will have both pins on one side designed for negative, while others will have one on each side of the bulb. It depends on how the manufactuer of the vehicle wired the sockets. If you use the wrong type of 3157 LED bulb, you end up with the two negative pins on the bulb shorting across a positive and a negative connection on the socket, blowing your fuse.
I bet if you took your LED bulbs, measured resistance across each of the pins, your results won't match those of the original poster. The two pins that have no resistance will be in different locations.
I'll bet that's it. Depending on how the socket is built it may be possible to simply re-wire it, but I doubt it. The other possible solutions would be modifying the bulb, and modifying the socket. I may play around with this this weekend, but right now I'm more concerned about the new audio equipment that just arrived (my new crossovers are gigantic! going to have to re-think the mounting position and probably do some re-wiring...)
Jackass wrote:Kardain wrote:I have non-GM specific bulbs and the pins are fine. A 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157... that's an industry standard bulb.
Not a true statement by anymeans. A standard incandescent 3157 is a 3157 is a 3157. Incandescent bulbs don't care where negative and positive come in at. As long as the circuit is completed, they light up. However a LED 3157 does care where negative and positive come in. Some 3157 LED bulbs will have both pins on one side designed for negative, while others will have one on each side of the bulb. It depends on how the manufactuer of the vehicle wired the sockets. If you use the wrong type of 3157 LED bulb, you end up with the two negative pins on the bulb shorting across a positive and a negative connection on the socket, blowing your fuse.
I bet if you took your LED bulbs, measured resistance across each of the pins, your results won't match those of the original poster. The two pins that have no resistance will be in different locations.
If the LED bulbs have a bridge rectifier (I think that's what its called), then it doesn't matter which is which. All the bulbs that I have, except for 2, are like that. Pos, neg, doesn't matter. It works just like an incandescent.
i bought those same l.e.d. bulbs for my 00 cav. One fried my passeger socket and completely melted it. I had to get a new one from the dealer.
(click images for full-size)
Here's the bulb that I'm using:
It works either direction, its not pole specific.
Purchased from Velocity LEDs
Had to wait until it was at least halfway nice out... lately its been quite overcast
LED bulb in the driver's side:
Incandescent in the passenger side:
From a distance (the "hot spot" is representative of actual visibility)
Those are much nicer bulbs than I had. Still not a fan of the "hot spot" really, but what ever makes each of us happy.
Jackass wrote:Those are much nicer bulbs than I had. Still not a fan of the "hot spot" really, but what ever makes each of us happy.
Neither am I, that's why I have them in the reverse light sockets
Kardain wrote:Jackass wrote:Those are much nicer bulbs than I had. Still not a fan of the "hot spot" really, but what ever makes each of us happy.
Neither am I, that's why I have them in the reverse light sockets
Wow, big difference in the visibility in between the incandescent and LED! I wonder if the "Light Tower" bulbs that autolumination would be better?
http://autolumination.com/3157_3156.htm
They are somewhat cylindrical, with 5 sets of 3 facing out from the sides, and either 3 or 5 on top depending on which ones you get. They are much more expensive than the ones I got ($15-20 each VS ~$7.50 each) but may be better. Perhaps I'll just sell the ones I got on Ebay since they don't agree with my light sockets.
Kardain wrote:Neither am I, that's why I have them in the reverse light sockets
Duh...I need to read better.
I actually looked into doing that at one point as well since they worked really well in there. I just wasn't willing to give up my reverse lights. Always thought about trying to find a Sunfire bumper to swap on, but was just way too lazy to try it.
As for those autolumination bulbs? They look sweet as hell, but I would still be concerned about the wiring of the bulbs. I wouldn't even consider the Matrix bulbs, only the tower ones. I made my own bulbs that resemble the matrix bulbs with 4 LEDs firing back to the side and they really didn't make that much difference overall since it was still only 4 LEDs firing backwards.
http://autolumination.com/conversion.html
I think this is the brand I bought long ago and I know I got the 3157-SRCK bulbs from them for my cav. However their site says they are for the "center" tail lamp in one part, and then just says "tail lamps" in another part....as well as considering cavs don't use 3156/3157 bulbs in their 3rd brake lights anyways. Before you order, I would call them to verify what is what.
