just curious if anyone would know how using Colorplace primer and Duplicolor paint and Duplicolor clear would work?
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
honestly i would not do rattle can paint on the exterior. just doesn't hold up. if your absoultly in need you can do what tabs did and have a paint store put the base and clear into spray cans if you do not have a paint gun or facilities to do a proper paint job. but what i would suggest is to save money and have it done right or it will cost twice as much in the end.
well what i was going to do is have the paint and clear for sure sprayed with a gun. got a friend that can do that. but i figure i could just use a can for jsut the primer on the stock base coat after i sand it all really good of course.
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
if you want to use about 378 cans of primer (gotta wet sand and ummm...wait wet sand some more) then go for...or you could jsut
SAVE MONEY AND GET IT DONE RIGHT
only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
ive just always used primer on anything is all and he didnt say no to the idea but ive seen his work and i dont doubt that at all.
i was honestly just thinking a light coat of primer over it all after wetsanding but if it really wouldnt make a difference with or without primer i might just sand it all and paint it.
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
thats what i would do. saves alot of sanding and the chance of over spray.
you need to primer it and no you should not use a rattle can. the stuff that comes in a can is garbage.
J.R.Thompson wrote:only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
really? so you wouldnt prime a car for color change?
also, why would you wetsand to repaint? you would want to scuff, not wetsand.
JtotheOtotheEtotheY wrote:J.R.Thompson wrote:only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
really? so you wouldnt prime a car for color change?
also, why would you wetsand to repaint? you would want to scuff, not wetsand.
no, i would not unless there were multiple colors thats when you get different shades and even then i've seen a ton of people paint over diferent colors. i believe when you have problems is when you do not get the paint on thick enough. thats where your color verys. and to be totally honest to get the best paint job is to completely strip the car and remove all the moldings and everything. seal it with a metal etching primer, wet sand and then 2-3 coats of base or until desired color is meet, 2-3 coats, allow drying time, wet sand with 1500-2000 grit, buff, then put into service. i don't think he is looking for all the trouble of stripping the car and all that so thats y i said what i said. and unless you doing a classic car or a strict show car thats not needed. thank you for testing my knowledge.
and also you wet sand with 300-500 grit sand paper to remove the wax dirt or anything else that might make a chemical reaction. also wet sanding you get a smoother finish so you dont see the highs and lows in the clear better known as orange peal. and if you don't believe me, get a painting sheet. you know the one they give you when you buy your paint.
none of this is to start bs just trying to help someone else. by no means do i do this for a living. just what i've been told over the years by people that do.
you dont need to primer for a color change. i would just used sealer if there is off colored places. besides do you know how much a gallon of primer is? cheap. just buy omni primer its like $70. cheaper than using 30 cans of spray primer
I'll say it again, rattle cans on exterior panels / painting a car is the devil.
JtotheOtotheEtotheY wrote:J.R.Thompson wrote:only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
really? so you wouldnt prime a car for color change?
also, why would you wetsand to repaint? you would want to scuff, not wetsand.
Actually JtotheOtotheEtotheY, he's right for the most part. Primer's main function/purpose is:
1. Promote adhesion to an extent, and "sealing off" bare metal/plastic/fiberglass/body filler.
2. A scratch filler. Sure, body filler and glazing putty are for filling scratches and imperfections in the panel (SMALL imperfections, the rule of thumb is NO MORE than 1/4" of body filler... but primer is also used to fill very fine scratches in the repaired panel or ones left from sanding, to get a smoother finish
For a color change you do not NEED to use primer, sealer is fine and works just as well, unless of course you're stripping all the factory paint off and down to the metal. Also when painting or prepping for paint, wetsanding is good to do because it does to an extent help "clean" the surface before painting. And it is true you don't want to just paint over an area with body filler / fiberglass / etc... it will be noticeable if it's not primed or sealed before painting... and does APPEAR to "suck up paint". As long as the car doesn't have 30 coats of paint on it (exaggeration), wetsanding and putting on sealer before a color change is just fine. It all really depends on what the customer/painter decide on doing. But, you DO want to prime before a color change if you're stripping down the old color. Again, unless the car's already been painted a ton of times without stripping any old paint off, wetsanding and sealing/painting is fine. You don't want the paint TOO thick, paint that's too thick will chip/crack much easier than paint that is within the tolerance levels. Think of it this way:
If you take a thin piece of plastic, such as those overhead things, it will bend and flex very well, and the odds of it cracking are much more slim than if you took that same plastic, but a thicker piece. A thicker piece of plastic will not bend and flex nearly as much as a thinner piece of plastic... it will crack/break much easier.
It is USUALLY better to wetsand than just scuff paint up before painting, things can and do from time to time get stuck in scuff pads which can leave deeper scratches that may not be visible until painted... whereas with wet sanding, you're "cleansing" your sandpaper, so to speak during the process, thus leaving less probability of those mysterious scratches showing up after painting. The only parts I ever really just scuffed before painting were OEM replacement bumpers which do not come primed. "Naked" plastic is VERY easy to scratch, so I used scuff pads to get in all the crevices before priming, because you can get into those crevices much easier and thoroughly than with sandpaper, if that makes sense, but I've always prepped my panels and primed places with wet sanding instead of scuffing.
But... with either one, you have to be careful, if you "dig" too much with your fingers while sanding it will show up after you're done painting.
TO THE OP: The shop will hate you if you prime anything with rattle cans before bringing it in for "real paint". Someone used rattle cans on a car (actually I had a few like this) before bringing it to me to paint, and rattle can paint / primer will gum up sandpaper like there's no tomorrow and is more difficult to remove, being that rattle can stuff doesn't completely dry in the manner auto grade paint does. How could it? If it completely dried, it wouldn't last long on the shelf before it wouldn't be usable. Just because it feels dry to the touch, doesn't mean it's "dry" in that sense. One truck in particular, I went through 5.. yes FIVE GRINDER DISCS just getting through the rattle can paint (home job, didn't pull out the dent just filled it with tons of body filler), and that was just getting through the paint before I could get to the filler. It makes the job much harder, or rather more of a pain in the arse for the shop when you bring your car in. Honestly, they're not going to charge you extra for priming before paint, it's all part of the process, but if you're making the job harder on the shop you could end up screwing yourself in the long run. I'd just let a shop do it honestly.
i guess my specific case is its 4 different colors right now lol red bumpers, which ive found were recleared and repainted crappy, factory silver hood, and factory black fender, the rest of the car is factory blue. what i'm looking for is to get the whole car 1 color again, nothing for show but yet look decent. i have a friend who has a gun that is going to spray it all. i dont hae alot of money but i'm not about cheap jobs, so the paint i was looking at was some stuff sold by the quart for $20/qt, ready to spray, from autozone. i believe its duplicolor which is the only way i'm considering it cause duplicolor is decent paint. if anyone has suggestions for other places or brands of automotive paint for not expencive, im open to suggestions.
i wont go with rattle can primer, if i go with primer (probably will it looks cause it is different colors right now) it'll be a can (qt or gal size with a gun)
like i said its not for show quality but i dont want it to look like ass either.
keep the opinions coming
thanks
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
btw if it makes a difference, i'm just going with plain gloss black
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
for $400, you can get a gallon of Omni base, gallon of clear, the catalyst, and the flex additive (forget if thats the exact name of it)
Hamburger Helper..One Pound, One Pan, One Disfunctional Family!
Fallen Angel wrote:I'll say it again, rattle cans on exterior panels / painting a car is the devil.
JtotheOtotheEtotheY wrote:J.R.Thompson wrote:only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
really? so you wouldnt prime a car for color change?
also, why would you wetsand to repaint? you would want to scuff, not wetsand.
Actually JtotheOtotheEtotheY, he's right for the most part. Primer's main function/purpose is:
1. Promote adhesion to an extent, and "sealing off" bare metal/plastic/fiberglass/body filler.
2. A scratch filler. Sure, body filler and glazing putty are for filling scratches and imperfections in the panel (SMALL imperfections, the rule of thumb is NO MORE than 1/4" of body filler... but primer is also used to fill very fine scratches in the repaired panel or ones left from sanding, to get a smoother finish
For a color change you do not NEED to use primer, sealer is fine and works just as well, unless of course you're stripping all the factory paint off and down to the metal. Also when painting or prepping for paint, wetsanding is good to do because it does to an extent help "clean" the surface before painting. And it is true you don't want to just paint over an area with body filler / fiberglass / etc... it will be noticeable if it's not primed or sealed before painting... and does APPEAR to "suck up paint". As long as the car doesn't have 30 coats of paint on it (exaggeration), wetsanding and putting on sealer before a color change is just fine. It all really depends on what the customer/painter decide on doing. But, you DO want to prime before a color change if you're stripping down the old color. Again, unless the car's already been painted a ton of times without stripping any old paint off, wetsanding and sealing/painting is fine. You don't want the paint TOO thick, paint that's too thick will chip/crack much easier than paint that is within the tolerance levels. Think of it this way:
If you take a thin piece of plastic, such as those overhead things, it will bend and flex very well, and the odds of it cracking are much more slim than if you took that same plastic, but a thicker piece. A thicker piece of plastic will not bend and flex nearly as much as a thinner piece of plastic... it will crack/break much easier.
It is USUALLY better to wetsand than just scuff paint up before painting, things can and do from time to time get stuck in scuff pads which can leave deeper scratches that may not be visible until painted... whereas with wet sanding, you're "cleansing" your sandpaper, so to speak during the process, thus leaving less probability of those mysterious scratches showing up after painting. The only parts I ever really just scuffed before painting were OEM replacement bumpers which do not come primed. "Naked" plastic is VERY easy to scratch, so I used scuff pads to get in all the crevices before priming, because you can get into those crevices much easier and thoroughly than with sandpaper, if that makes sense, but I've always prepped my panels and primed places with wet sanding instead of scuffing.
But... with either one, you have to be careful, if you "dig" too much with your fingers while sanding it will show up after you're done painting.
TO THE OP: The shop will hate you if you prime anything with rattle cans before bringing it in for "real paint". Someone used rattle cans on a car (actually I had a few like this) before bringing it to me to paint, and rattle can paint / primer will gum up sandpaper like there's no tomorrow and is more difficult to remove, being that rattle can stuff doesn't completely dry in the manner auto grade paint does. How could it? If it completely dried, it wouldn't last long on the shelf before it wouldn't be usable. Just because it feels dry to the touch, doesn't mean it's "dry" in that sense. One truck in particular, I went through 5.. yes FIVE GRINDER DISCS just getting through the rattle can paint (home job, didn't pull out the dent just filled it with tons of body filler), and that was just getting through the paint before I could get to the filler. It makes the job much harder, or rather more of a pain in the arse for the shop when you bring your car in. Honestly, they're not going to charge you extra for priming before paint, it's all part of the process, but if you're making the job harder on the shop you could end up screwing yourself in the long run. I'd just let a shop do it honestly.
thank you fallen angel for the backing. also to joey and others i do about 95% of the work on my cars myself for to reasons save money and the experence and pride of saying yeah i did that weather it turns out good or bad.
OP- also if i were you what i would do is go with what the original(blue) color because sounds like all the stuff that needs painted are removable. that way you can take them off paint them, that way no masking just prep work, then put them back on. trust me it will save alot of headache and wont look cheese. also if i'm not mistaken the omni paint talked about above is made by PPG and is called shopline. basically its the lower end paint thats what i'm using for cost issues and mine is a dd. but check into it. it has a very good price.
ok just curious, does it really take a gallon of everything to paint just the outside? ive known people to use just a quart of paint and a qt of clear for small cars to do a recolor like what im doing?
JR - im just canging the whole color cause i prefer black is all heh heh but i know what you're saying it would be easier
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
Bigari - no, it doesnt take a gallon of everything. But the PPG dealer where i am at (Sams auto supply) told me they only sell clear by the gallon. Bastards.
Hamburger Helper..One Pound, One Pan, One Disfunctional Family!
^^^^ that sucks i got two quarts yesterday.
ok cool thats good to know. like i said i dont want to be cheap about this but i'm kinda low on funds
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
Bigari Balsagna(04eco) wrote:ok cool thats good to know. like i said i dont want to be cheap about this but i'm kinda low on funds
THen wait, save up money, and don't cheap out.
PPG, and DuPont both have "cheaper" paints, that are MUCH higher quality than what you're saying. Sherwin Williams also makes an auto paint, i go with DuPont personally, my second choice being PPG. Cheap paint doesn't normally hold up as long and as well as better paints... remember YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
You know what... save up the extra money, and get it done good and right. Taking shortcuts now will only end up costing you more later, generally speaking
is duplicolor really that "cheap" of a paint?
but i do know what you're saying i believe that myself, you get what you pay for, i'll check into the other brands.
where in general would you suggest checking for those paints and then the other stuff needed since those arent "ready to spray". i guess like hardener and what not?
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
Fallen Angel wrote:I'll say it again, rattle cans on exterior panels / painting a car is the devil.
JtotheOtotheEtotheY wrote:J.R.Thompson wrote:only time you need to use a primer is if your sealing metal, bondo, or plastic. basically all primer does is promote the adhesion or better know as when you paint over bondo with no primer it will suck alot of paint in before it looks uniform. if you have a friend that paints and does not know these things i don't know if i would let him paint anything you own. also to directly answer your question is if you have no exposed bondo, metal, or plastic you can get away with just thourghly wet sanding the area and laying base and clear.
really? so you wouldnt prime a car for color change?
also, why would you wetsand to repaint? you would want to scuff, not wetsand.
Actually JtotheOtotheEtotheY, he's right for the most part. Primer's main function/purpose is:
1. Promote adhesion to an extent, and "sealing off" bare metal/plastic/fiberglass/body filler.
2. A scratch filler. Sure, body filler and glazing putty are for filling scratches and imperfections in the panel (SMALL imperfections, the rule of thumb is NO MORE than 1/4" of body filler... but primer is also used to fill very fine scratches in the repaired panel or ones left from sanding, to get a smoother finish
For a color change you do not NEED to use primer, sealer is fine and works just as well, unless of course you're stripping all the factory paint off and down to the metal. Also when painting or prepping for paint, wetsanding is good to do because it does to an extent help "clean" the surface before painting. And it is true you don't want to just paint over an area with body filler / fiberglass / etc... it will be noticeable if it's not primed or sealed before painting... and does APPEAR to "suck up paint". As long as the car doesn't have 30 coats of paint on it (exaggeration), wetsanding and putting on sealer before a color change is just fine. It all really depends on what the customer/painter decide on doing. But, you DO want to prime before a color change if you're stripping down the old color. Again, unless the car's already been painted a ton of times without stripping any old paint off, wetsanding and sealing/painting is fine. You don't want the paint TOO thick, paint that's too thick will chip/crack much easier than paint that is within the tolerance levels. Think of it this way:
If you take a thin piece of plastic, such as those overhead things, it will bend and flex very well, and the odds of it cracking are much more slim than if you took that same plastic, but a thicker piece. A thicker piece of plastic will not bend and flex nearly as much as a thinner piece of plastic... it will crack/break much easier.
It is USUALLY better to wetsand than just scuff paint up before painting, things can and do from time to time get stuck in scuff pads which can leave deeper scratches that may not be visible until painted... whereas with wet sanding, you're "cleansing" your sandpaper, so to speak during the process, thus leaving less probability of those mysterious scratches showing up after painting. The only parts I ever really just scuffed before painting were OEM replacement bumpers which do not come primed. "Naked" plastic is VERY easy to scratch, so I used scuff pads to get in all the crevices before priming, because you can get into those crevices much easier and thoroughly than with sandpaper, if that makes sense, but I've always prepped my panels and primed places with wet sanding instead of scuffing.
But... with either one, you have to be careful, if you "dig" too much with your fingers while sanding it will show up after you're done painting.
screw all that.....we hit the whole car with a soft pad DA to knock the clear off and then quick scuff and go. I suppose it isnt a bad thing to wetsand the car down, but just seems like alot more work than is really needed IMO.
So you guys wetsand before paint, and after? IDK, just seems like alot of extra work.
J.R.Thompson wrote:Thank you fallen angel for the backing. also to joey and others i do about 95% of the work on my cars myself for to reasons save money and the experence and pride of saying yeah i did that weather it turns out good or bad.
same here........only thing I can say I didn't work on in my car would be the marbling of the whole car. Helped yes, but done myself, no.
Marble is a PITA, even with 2 people.
oh wait....no, i lie, i didnt do the alarm system either. I hate working on electrical.
Bigari Balsagna(04eco) wrote:is duplicolor really that "cheap" of a paint?
but i do know what you're saying i believe that myself, you get what you pay for, i'll check into the other brands.
where in general would you suggest checking for those paints and then the other stuff needed since those arent "ready to spray". i guess like hardener and what not?
Anything "ready to spray" you should stay away from if you want a decent paintjob. I think even Maaco uses single stage paints that require adding an "activator" before spraying. If you want a good quality, which is going to be durable, "ready to spray" is not the way to go.
A good primer is going to need to be reduced/activated (depending all on the brand), a good base coat is going to need reduced before spraying, and a good clear is going to need at least an activator.
As far as what you need, ask the paint shop you're buying it from. They'll be able to tell you how much you need for what your doing of what products. I can't tell you personally because I don't know what you're using. And even if you did say "I'm using DuPont", it would depend on the brand you're using as to what you need. So, ask the people you're buying it off of.
And Joey, to each their own in the process, I'm just stating how we did things at both of the shops I worked at... one was a HUGE dealership with multiple dealers in multiple counties, and the other was where I was trained, which was by a guy in a small hole in the wall shop where the owner had over 25 years of experience. Scuffing might have worked for you, but for the OP who I'm guessing has very little experience or autobody knowledge, wet sanding with a sanding block (as to not dig into the paint with his fingers) would be the best route to take, and HOPEFULLY the painter knows what the heck he's doing and supervises or something.
well went to a local sherwin williams store that sold only automotive paints. and they priced me around 350 for sealer, paint and clear. all about the same color wise in no crazy colors. and that was for all gallon size stuff. otherwise if the guy spraying it can really do it with a quart of each like he syas hes done before and make it look good then itll be half that roughly if not a little less.
anyone have any color suggestions haha? i know its my car and what i'd want but just looking for ideas. its an 04 sunfire btw stock body no kit or hood.
thanks
The one, the only, ME.
2465 lbs without me
141 hp @ 6300 (ran out of rpms)
123 ft lbs @ 5200
running lean on stock ECU
megasquirt here i come
