What the hell do we need to pass a law that says we dont torture people? Is it just me or isnt that covered in the Geneva Convention?
@!#$ it...i say we tourture them
The Geneva Convention covers what are known as enimies. Ememies are from a country that can identified. We are fighting ENEMY COMBATENTS which have no diserable country so technicly we can do whatever we want to them.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
^^^After a minute or so I understood what you just said. In lamest terms your saying the people we are fighting now dont belong to a country. And the geneva convention only covers enemies fighting FOR a country right?
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
Exactly ! Your not a citizen of the US so our legal system DOES NOT apply to you. Your not a soldier in anyones army so your fair game for electrods hooked to your nipples.
Hey tough, maybe you should be trying to blow up our troops. I say they get what they deserve.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jbody2nr wrote:^^^After a minute or so I understood what you just said. In lamest terms your saying the people we are fighting now dont belong to a country. And the geneva convention only covers enemies fighting FOR a country right?
Right which is BULL$%## and everyone knows it... Why should it matter of they are from a specific country or not? Does someones rights to be treated humanely change because they are from a different country? These kinds of actions are the exact reasons why people dont believe anything comming from the mouths of our adminstration. Its like when Condie said we didnt use our allies airspace to transport detainees that were being tortured she didnt say we didnt transport them by ground or sea through their countries. These kinds of word games are rediculous and the people playing them should be punished.
@!#$ this....if some mother @!#$ is trying to kill me and my freinds, and i capture him...hes getting the razor blade and salt water treatment.
Roscoe wrote:@!#$ this....if some mother @!#$ is trying to kill me and my freinds, and i capture him...hes getting the razor blade and salt water treatment.
Ignorance is bliss... So when our troops and get caught trying to kill their people they should have the same right to touture our troops right? This kind of arguement is insane. Its ok as long as it only applies to them not us?
And Jack if you want to use the arguement that you are using then Saddam was not doing anything wrong in some instances in tourturing people.
Roscoe wrote:@!#$ this....if some mother @!#$ is trying to kill me and my freinds, and i capture him...hes getting the razor blade and salt water treatment.
This is why we need a law because as of now it is not illegal to do this type of stuff.
Now if you think we need this law I disagre with you but thats a moot point as the law is on its way. But till then its nails under the fingernails.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
mw10bvh wrote:And Jack if you want to use the arguement that you are using then Saddam was not doing anything wrong in some instances in tourturing people.
No I never said it was right to do it. But its gonna happen because of people can do it and get away with it as a means of revenge.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
its pretty much already a law that we cant tourture people and the only people by military law we can attack are combatants which are people going after you but theres so many more parts to this rule just look up the Law Of Armed Combat
JUST KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
The term "enemy combatants" is a bit of a side step around the Geneva convention because the terms (drawn up in the early 30's as I recall) focused on regular military or regimented irregulars.
Terrorists usually have a diverse network that isn't as regimented as normal military, so shooting them would mean basically shooting an armed civillian without the term... I'm not too clear on the way its read into by the military (Saint would be able to clarify I'm sure), but it exists to deal with the new form of combat.
And, torture is outlawed by the US, but, handing the persons off to another country that is friendly (or wants to be), that doesn't denounce torture... that's just fine. It's an interesting double standard no doubt.
And Roscoe: I just hope you don't end up in Baghdad, or have sephardic features... People can get arrested for DWA (driving while arabic).
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
mw10bvh wrote:Roscoe wrote:@!#$ this....if some mother @!#$ is trying to kill me and my freinds, and i capture him...hes getting the razor blade and salt water treatment.
Ignorance is bliss... So when our troops and get caught trying to kill their people they should have the same right to touture our troops right? This kind of arguement is insane. Its ok as long as it only applies to them not us?
I hope you dont actually believe that they're not torturing our POW's. Cause they are, believe me they are.
I think a certain extent of torture is ok. Water torture for one, extreme verbal abuse another. But not stripping their clothes and taking pictures of them in a gay man lovepile. Thats not even right.
Not even a little bit.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
UMMMM I know they are but that still doesnt make it right for us or for them. My with Rosco is that he wants us to just go in there and torture them. Its wrong no matter who is doing it.
RE: Use of Torture:
Really depends on the type and who knows about it. Just because we don't see them torturing our POW's doesnt mean they arent doing it. Don't have to show anybody that we're using torture tactics; we're perfectly capable of saying we aren't and doing it behind closed doors without cameras. Because honestly, had there of been no cameras at the camps where they humiliated the Afghani (if i remember right) POWs who would honestly know about it? No one knows, no one would care; therefore it wouldnt be a public issue
Gam we all can agree that the enemy combatant label is a load of crap used so the
different agencies can do whatever they want to those guys without any worry they will get in trouble. This law should hopefully stop it.
BTW. I may be mean but even I can't condon torture, I was kidding earlier guys.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
the only problem with torture is that information is not always reliable since if you're good at it, they will tell you anything to make you stop
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our "POW"s if you can call the civilians they kidnap POWs and the military POWs are definatly tortured. It's on tape. Including their execution. Since we already know that they won't stop despite the good treatment that our captives recieve, I say torture and kill every one of the bastards we find. but I'm also in favor of a "take no prisoners" policy. Of course these are against the official policy of the US and most of the world, so when I'm in uniform I am obligated to follow the LOAC.
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Reason: Your comment about Grim Raven's wife was completely uncalled for and way over the top.
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The reason the Geneva Convention does not cover terrorists is because they do not wear distinguishable uniforms, and becuase they themselves do not follow it. I do not think having a country of origin is needed to fall under the geneva convention. Also, the beheading of civillians and servicemen by terrorists kind of shows they do not follow the rules set by it, nor would they if we followed it. If I remember right the Geneva Convention was not setting a moral standard so much as an agreement between nations to treat prisoners of war with a mutual respect(I think it even sets higher standards of treatment for enemy officers over enlisted).
Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC)
The LOAC arises from a desire among civilized nations to prevent unnecessary suffering and destruction while not impeding the effective waging of war. A part of public international law, LOAC regulates the conduct of armed hostilities. It also aims to protect civilians, prisoners of war, the wounded, sick, and shipwrecked.
In order to be a lawful combatant and protected by the geneva convention you must;
Wear a "uniform" that is clearly identifiable (this is often accomplished by as little as an arm band or brightly colored outfit)
Bear your arms openly
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m6007/is_55/ai_n8585592 wrote:The U.S. has applied well-established existing international law in holding that the al-Qaeda and Taliban detainees are presumptively unlawful combatants not entitled to POW status. (3) Taliban and al-Qaeda enemy combatants captured without military uniforms in armed conflict are not presumptively entitled to, nor automatically granted, POW status. POW status is a privileged status given by a capturing party as an international obligation to a captured enemy combatant, if and when the enemy's previous lawful actions in armed conflict demonstrate that POW status is merited. In the case of captured al-Qaeda and Taliban combatants, their combined unlawful actions in armed conflict, and al-Qaeda's failure to adequately align with a state show POW status is not warranted.
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for some good reading,
Click here
of course you don't have to qualify as a POW to not be tortured..... but it does help. When one is not granted POW status, they can be held accountable for their actions (such as murder, carrying weapons, destruction of property, etc...)
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Reason: Your comment about Grim Raven's wife was completely uncalled for and way over the top.
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Dont get me wrong I understand what you guys are saying but we are supposed to be the good guys here. The behaviors we have exhibited in Iraq and some other places are deplorable. My only arguement was we consider ourselfs to be one of the most moral and upstanding countries in the world (That was much harder to say than it looks.) and daily there is some kind of scandal in regards to our political system, its agendas and the people in power in it. Its a sad sad statement that things have gotten this way.
