2 articles today about the great state that i live in

http://freep.com/article/20090722/NEWS15/90722031/Dems-to-test-support-for--10-minimum-wage

Quote:

Michigan Democrats aim to test support for higher minimum wage
BY DAWSON BELL • FREE PRESS LANSING BUREAU • July 22, 2009

LANSING – The Michigan Democratic Party plans to test support for an array of populist ballot proposals, with an eye toward mounting one or more petition drives to put the questions before voters in 2010, state party Chairman Mark Brewer said today.

The potential measures include:

• Hiking the minimum wage to $10 an hour for all workers.

• Imposing a blanket moratorium on home foreclosures for 12 months.

• Cutting utility rates 20% across the board.

• Requiring all employers to provide health care to their employees.

• Hiking, by $100 a week, and extending, for six months, unemployment benefits.

Brewer said party activists will be surveyed online about the proposals, and a decision made later this year or early next about whether to launch ballot drives. All of the measures are intended to give voters the chance to circumvent recalcitrant politicians in Lansing, he said, demonstrating that Democrats are “on the side of the people.”

so increase min wage = increased costs for every consumer
which also = more taxes paid

stopping home foreclosures for 12 months??? really, i'm gonna have to tell a few people to stop paying their mortgages, damn

utility rates, sure, cut them all you want, you already charge too much

requiring health care? talk about putting small businesses out

$100 more a week for someone to sit on their ass, and for another 6 months? wow


this article.....i just laugh
http://detnews.com/article/20090722/METRO01/907220374/1409/METRO/Many-City-Council-candidates-have-blemished-records
pimps, bankruptcies, foreclosures, back-taxes, winners


.

im glad im moving to illinois soon. always hated mi......

wow....I cannot stand this effing state anymore! There go all the rest of the jobs if they raise the minimum wage. Small businesses will pick up and move across state lines and the unemployment rate will hit over 20%!! Michiganders are the ones to blame for re-electing these @!#$s year after year.

Great. Hike up minimum wage, and requiring health insurance benefits=hiking up unemployment even further. Good idea.

Then put it on the ballot, so when the state completely collapses, no one in the state government can take the blame for it.

Sometimes I really do hate this state.

mitdr774 wrote:I really do hate this state.

Fixed lol.

Michigan is only good if you live in another state, alot of nice outdoor areas here. U.P. is weird. Might as well be canada lol

Mike (96RedCav) wrote:im glad im moving to illinois soon. always hated mi......

Hahahahahahahahaha

Boy are you ever gonna be disappointed...

Well I guess Illinois isn't Michigan at least.

As for those ballot measures... raise the minimum wage to whatever the hell you want because what people earn means nothing... IF THEY DON"T HAVE A JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE! I know that the state had budget gaps to fill - but they NEED to focus on making MORE JOBS instead of higher paying jobs. I imagine that doing this at this time is only going to cost jobs.

Quote:

Cutting utility rates 20% across the board.

That's nice for consumers and basically every sector of business (except utility companies) but... Maybe they need to determine if their utility rates are being jacked or if those rates reflect what their utility companies are paying for the fuel they use to produce electricity etc. A blanket 20% cut without regard to anything at all sounds to me like it could drive many utility companies under. I could see regulating the markup/profit to a certain percentage etc, but NOT a blanket cut in rates. Energy companies need to make a profit or there will be no energy company to provide/distribute energy to everyone else. Michigan would REALLY be @!#$ed then.

With all the deadbeats in this state, they'd probably jump at it. Just roll out ACORN in Detroit, flint, saginaw, ypsilanti, etc.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

why is illinois so much worse? yea it has its issues. but its still worlds away from michigan.

Worlds away? There damn near neighboring states.. Things will be about the same other than a few laws and such.

Mike (96RedCav) wrote:why is illinois so much worse? yea it has its issues. but its still worlds away from michigan.

You’re driving skills will slowly diminish. i.e : stop using your blinker, speed more than usual, and have no respect for other drivers. It’s the typical “FIB” or Illinois way!

I kid I kid..











































…kinda.

A living wage for workers.. What seems to be the problem with that ? A few provinces here in Canada have had the same thing going on for years... (B.C. for over a decade..). Has our economy collapsed as badly ? No. Helping out families on the verge of foreclosure ? 12 months could mean better times, adjusted interest rates, and a return to a somewhat affordable mortgage payment, or even a new job.


I just fail to see the negative, it is as if everyone is against bill's now benefiting YOU the average person. Instead you put the rights & WELL being of Corporations over your own. Possibly even your families ?



My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"

i dont mean worlds away in terms of distance.

i will be fine. we moved here from chicago. and yes, i learned how to drive in chicago. it is expected to drive like that there kinda.

all im saying is illinois is better than mi atm. and i would rather be back there with family

Short Hand wrote:A living wage for workers.. What seems to be the problem with that ? A few provinces here in Canada have had the same thing going on for years... (B.C. for over a decade..). Has our economy collapsed as badly ? No. Helping out families on the verge of foreclosure ? 12 months could mean better times, adjusted interest rates, and a return to a somewhat affordable mortgage payment, or even a new job.


I just fail to see the negative, it is as if everyone is against bill's now benefiting YOU the average person. Instead you put the rights & WELL being of Corporations over your own. Possibly even your families ?

Raising minimum wage right now will simply increase the unemployment rate. Companies are already struggling, and laying off workers. When they are forced to pay more for the employees who haven't been laid off yet, they will lay more off. Simple economics of business, nothing more.

As for the mortgage 12 month foreclosure holiday being a good thing, consider how badly that can, and will be, taken advantage of by people who would otherwise find a way to pay their mortgage (ie.: people spending money on things they can do without). This will cause more banks to lose money, and more overall financial damage to the economy.

Seriously, people need to really step back and consider the consequences of such feel-good legislation, and see where it all leads.

With regards to Canada's economy not collapsing, it hasn't exactly been booming, either. Are you advocating mediocrity? Because that's what you get with high taxes on those who truly produce the wealth in any country. Socialist polices do not bring up the bottom level, they bring down the top level. Maybe it makes some at the bottom feel better (jealousy is satisfied), but it doesn't make their life any better.

Also worthy of noting, since you are one who believes in the Canadian socialized medical industry, is that your country is currently looking at bringing private insurance back. Care to explain that one?

I say lower the minimum wage to $0.37 per hour.




THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Quiklilcav wrote:

Short Hand wrote:A living wage for workers.. What seems to be the problem with that ?

I just fail to see the negative, it is as if everyone is against bill's now benefiting YOU the average person. Instead you put the rights & WELL being of Corporations over your own. Possibly even your families ?

Raising minimum wage right now will simply increase the unemployment rate. Companies are already struggling, and laying off workers. When they are forced to pay more for the employees who haven't been laid off yet, they will lay more off. Simple economics of business, nothing more.

i just never cease to be amazed at how little people understand about basic economics

"take the money from the rich!" or "make the government give us handouts!" are the cries that constantly come from people who like to think of themselves as intelligent humanitarians. but they either dont realize, or just dont care, that these sort of solutions are inherently unamerican and are wholly unsustainable systems that do nothing more than bankrupt our country--both figuratively (by rewarding laziness) and literally (by exponentially increasing the deficit)

i just dont get how people can believe that these sort of policies are good ideas. i mean i am literally flabbergasted at some things i hear people say......they just dont make sense.

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I say lower the minimum wage to $0.37 per hour.

Along with the damn UAW wage!


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I say lower the minimum wage to $0.37 per hour.

Along with the damn UAW wage!


Chris

Agreed.
This state suck balls. And the REALLY scary part...this is what the entire country will be like if you let Democrats run everything.
That's all we have here is a nearly 90% Democratic ran state. When you watch Michigan fail it's a sneeky peeky at your own future.

By 2012, you better remember Ron Pauls name.
Or at the the very least Mitt Romney. I think we all learned that "change" doesn't have mean party change just policy change. George Bush was a republican and, not a very good one. But we didn't NEED to vote democrat to send a message. I'm voting for change in 2012. A change back to Republican...that's saying a lot coming from me who hates party affiliations.



"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net

it sounds like political B.S. they will use all of this bull sht on the next election so that more people vote democrat. I dont buy anything of what they say or try to do. WHERE IS THE HOPE?
God help us all =-[


"I See No CHANGE"

Jookycola wrote:

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I say lower the minimum wage to $0.37 per hour.

Along with the damn UAW wage!


Chris

Agreed.
This state suck balls. And the REALLY scary part...this is what the entire country will be like if you let Democrats run everything.
That's all we have here is a nearly 90% Democratic ran state. When you watch Michigan fail it's a sneeky peeky at your own future.

By 2012, you better remember Ron Pauls name.
Or at the the very least Mitt Romney. I think we all learned that "change" doesn't have mean party change just policy change. George Bush was a republican and, not a very good one. But we didn't NEED to vote democrat to send a message. I'm voting for change in 2012. A change back to Republican...that's saying a lot coming from me who hates party affiliations.

Lets make it better, so business can hire more. Lets lower both of your wage to $1 an hr... hey it is higher than $0.37, but this would mean more jobs will be opened, because your employer will not have to pay you a luxury salary any more.
I think it is a great idea.

spoiler wrote:it sounds like political B.S. they will use all of this bull sht on the next election so that more people vote democrat. I dont buy anything of what they say or try to do. WHERE IS THE HOPE?
God help us all =-[

Yhea the money sapping UAW really doesn't help much either on a badly ran company. And since that state was majorly employed by US auto industry which again was badly operated, what good can you expect from it. Good or bad, that's a aspect of capitalism, no matter whose in office.


THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

actually, in all honesty, I don't believe that a "federal" min wadge should exist...... Enter Tenth Amendment.

Honest days pay, for a honest days work..... Is putting on 6 lug nuts at a time, for 7 hours a day on a line REALLY worth 72/hr? That's what it was at the jainesvill GM plant 2 years ago (the last I heard, the bastard looked at the class walking through and bragged about it too, "can you believe I am getting paid......" )


Unions.... and were walking in to a nation that is pro union... remember what happened to the "soviet UNION"?

ya.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Skilled trades unions do have a place. the UAW however is not a skilled trade and never will be. I am in the IBEW as an apprentice and have spent time in a plant. I can honestly say that there is no skill or labor in about 80% of the jobs actually performed in that plant. We have a contract negotiations coming up and it i expected that we will take a big pay cut. this is something that most of the members are aware of and will accept as that is how the times are right now. It takes big threats and some force to get the UAW to accept how things need to be and even then they still kick and scream the whole way. As a former dealer employee I also had to deal with local GM plant workers and was less than impressed with the work ethic they portrayed.

But, for lack of a better word, you "union" should be called a guild. not a union.


Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

i kinda skipped around on peoples posts. i was suprised when i heard how many older people were excited about the minimum wage hike, its completely rediculous. people dont think that the more employees make the more it costs to sell or prouce somthing because the labor cost. all a minimum wage incerase does is cause inflation. also the skilled trade comment by clyde is at least on point. working on an assembly line is not a skilled trade. no one should get paid $20+ to put a few screws in. this also comes back on the minimum wage thing, if the labor costs more, the product costs more, pushing cars to an unbeleavible price.
were doing this to ourselves. live it up america, screw living with-in your means, buy everything on credit and make damn sure you keep up with the jones'.

BP (brandonpauli) wrote:i kinda skipped around on peoples posts. i was suprised when i heard how many older people were excited about the minimum wage hike, its completely rediculous. people dont think that the more employees make the more it costs to sell or prouce somthing because the labor cost.

There is a reason for this. The generally accepted principle these days is that corporations make extremely high profits. Raw numbers are thrown around, such as "XYZ company made $15 million in profit last year", because such high numbers seem outrageous to the average person. What people don't ever seem to get is that XYZ company probably spent in the neighborhood of $300 million to make that $15 million. The actual percentage of net profit for a lot of companies is in low single digits. The campaign against Corporate America has successfully convinced everyone that companies have tons of money that they just aren't using to adequately pay their employees.