I've been complaining about the brakes in my '97 Cavalier (2.2 auto, w/ ABS) for a while now. Once upon a time I was able to come to a screeching halt at will. I installed slotted/drilled rotors and ceramic pads over a year ago, and ever since the first few stops for "bedding the pads" (which I recall started out very impressive, but suddenly faded), I've found the pedal mushy. There was still satisfactory braking force, but it seemed to take more pedal and left less reserve. Lately I was even finding the bottom of the pedal during abrupt braking.

Bleeding them didn't seem to help. Adjusting the rears provided earlier engagement, but it still seemed like I had a big piece of fruit under the pedal. Tired of dead ends, I recently replaced the rears entirely (drums and shoes), and got some new Hawk pads from the front care of Jason at A Plus.

Fast forward to today. I'm out bedding-in the new pads. It's about the third or fourth serious 60-to-10 mph slow down, and the car is actually stopping fairly well. Not like it did years ago mind you, but it seemed improved. The only warning I got was a short squawk as one of the rear tires locked up for a split-second, just as the pedal dropped to the floor. I pump them again. No brakes. I found this somewhat inconvenient. The car provided no trouble lights or other insight into why it wanted me to die so much.

Through a combination of e-brake and low-range auto shifting, I limped it home. There is no sign of any leaks around the wheels, lines, or under the hood. The fluid reservoir is full. With the engine off, the pedal pumps and builds pressure at the booster, but effortlessly runs to the floor when the engine is running. With the pedal floored, there is a very slight bit of drag on the brakes, but I'd stop faster if I held a bag out the window.

I'm thinking the master is popped. Does this seem about right? Thanks for any suggestions.



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Turns out the (upgraded, stainless steel braided) flex line on the front passenger side burst. I'm surprised I didn't spot the leak sooner. I'm more surprised that wasn't enough isolation in the hydraulic system to keep some rear brakes, as I believe they are supposed to. Great safety GM.



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I had a similar problem happen to me years ago with a 1968 camaro with manual brakes. My brake pedal would go all the way to the floor during a panic stop. The car would not move for about 15 seconds after I stopped. After a trip to the brake shop, I found the flexible hoses were swelling and not letting the pressure go to the brakes. When I let off of the brakes, the swollen lines would contract and keep the brakes locked against the rotors. After the hoses were changed, the brakes firmed up. You can check this by putting your hand around the flex line while someone presses the pedal. You will feel the hose pulse if it is bad. This should be a simple check.

LOL I didn't see the last post. Ha

Thanks anyways -- I'm right pissed-off to report that I haven't seen the end of all my troubles.

I've ended up with a new pair of flex lines, and new calipers. The rotors have been turned. It seems that on top of the stress of repeated highway-speed stops, the calipers were also just about pooched and were sticking on slightly. The heat was enough to turn the rotors blue, and eventually heated up the flex line enough to cause a rupture.

Despite getting all this changed over today, the pedal feel is still pathetic. Mushy as hell -- worse, since I went back to stock rubber flex lines. It feels to me like they need bleeding, but it has been done thoroughly and often enough over the past year that I doubt that's the answer. I've had about enough of this BS, especially since the they somehow manage to make the brakes work on the friggin Hyundai Elantra I borrowed while my car was in the shop.



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Do you have a firm pedal with the car off and all of the reserve out of the vacuum booster?

The booster seems pretty good. I can maybe get one pump through to the floorboards, and then the pedal holds solid with almost no give at the top, and no leak-down.



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I can normally get 3 pumps before I loose a vacuum. I am thinking it is a questionable booster. Besides, it is the only thing you have not played with yet. LOL

When boosters go bad, I've always experienced them to make the brakes hard to press. I'm thinking that while the line was bad, you damaged the master cylinder by jamming the pedal all the time. I've seen them die when bleeding from pressing the pedal too hard.

The brakes on these cars are a PITA. I had terrible problems with the rear locking up and activating the ABS. I finally solved that by installing Delco shoes and the braking is now very good, but recently I've been hearing some grinding, which may just be worn out pads. I hate to even start working on it again after all the problems I had before. I've read that a lot of these problems are due to heavy rear proportioning which is done because the rear end is so light.

This is part of why I refer to my car as the "Crapalier."


2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"

I *used* to have problems with the rear locking up and activating the ABS. I'd take that consequence now, as it's been quite a while since I've had enough braking force to cause *any* wheel lockup.

If fully applying the brake is a possible cause of damage in the master cylinder, then I'm pretty much screwed, since I couldn't begin to guess how many times it's been done. Sounds like fun.

As an interesting "might be worth noting" observation: As I buzzed into the parking lot coming back from lunch, I hit a pothole and got some ABS activation. As I feathered the brake pedal and reapplied it, the pedal was higher (closer to normal). A split second later, it felt like it went past some catch of resistance, and fell back down again. Odd.

In any case I got myself a bunch of brake fluid to try and bleed the hell out of the system again. I was just reading up on purging the air from the hyraulic modulator, which I can't guarantee has been done properly yet. It also sound promising given the ABS weirdness I just mentioned.



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Might be getting due for a new master cylinder.



2009 Ford Mustang V6

I did not even factor in ABS on your car. My 90 does not have it. My 94 jimmy has a bad ABS. There is a procedure to purge the ABS unit. Mine uses a special tool to hold the solenoids open to purge any air out of the unit.

Bleeding didn't seem to help. I used the procedure in the Haynes manual to bleed the ABS, which was basically to start the car a couple of times and let the dash light go out before messing the bleeder. It didn't seem like there was any air in it. I think I got a bit of air out of the passenger-rear brake line, but apparently not enough to make a difference.

Looks a lot like a tired master cylinder. The ultimate braking force is decent, but only when is when it is floored. The first couple of stops seem the worst, and I can easily roll several feet with the brakes matted. I think what annoys me most is that other people who test my car don't seem to notice the problem. My regular mechanic says "it feels like any other Cavalier", which I almost find insulting for all of us. I admit it's not unsafe if I don't drive like a maniac, and avoid any emergencies. What I don't understand is how so many people can think that is good enough. Apparently as someone who expects tight brakes, I'm in the minority.



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What about the rear brake lines? I think these cars have 2 flex lines in back that could also be collapsed.


2.2 97 Cavalier......the "Crapalier"

True, the rear flex lines were the same type and installed at the same time as the ones on the front (which blew out). They are all only a bit more than a year old though, so NONE of them really should have gone bad, but heat may have weakened the rears too. They were an off-brand of SS braided lines from eBay, so it would be just my luck that they are stretching like balloons.



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Do you have rear disk brakes. If so, is the rear parking brake adjusted? I don't know about the j- bodies, but the e-brake adjusts the slack on the rear disks.I know it works this way on the 79 to 81 trans Am rear brakes. If they are not adjusted, the brake pedal goes to the floor the first time they are applied.

Stock rear drums. If anything, my e-brake is borderline dragging and engages immediately. I occasionally need to pop the ratchet mechanism at the handle to get it to give back some slack-- I don't think the cable has much return tension for some reason.



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