Hello, I have a 2.0L manual that normally starts quickly w/ no problems. Then one day about 3 weeks ago I went to go to work and it acted like it wasn't going to start. Cranked and cranked each time almost starting. It finally started and I shut it off and restarted it a few times and went to work. Then got to work shut it off waited about 5 mins and it re started like normal. Took it to a friend who has a nice diagnostic code reader and it threw a crank shaft position code. Ok so I replaced that,what a PITA. It was no help. Then read on All Data Pro that the Coolant temp sensor sends a signal to ECM. For $9.00 I figured cant hurt. I replaced that to no avail. Also found my inlet air tube was missing 1/2 the lip under the throttle body, had to go to vintage parts dot com and ordered a oem for $28. No help either. (good site by the way, used the oem part number from the dealership too). I've been reading old posts on this website and decided to sign up. So far all the no start or hard to start threads are pointing to the fuel system. My next step will be to replace the fuel filter it probably orig. and while the line is off hook up a pressure tester to make sure I'm getting close to 47 psi. Any and all comments will be appreciated, maybe

Right now sometimes it starts with lots of cranking sometimes it wont. I don't crank it until the battery goes dead either. If it wont start after a few tries it aint going to. No sense in overheating the starter and wires. Also once it starts it runs smooth as it always has and it will restart normally.

mine does that in the morning now, it cranks like 7-8 times before starting

i just got HID"s in my car and with my system,running inside lights, ect running its killing my charging system,

but i would look into that fuel filter i think i paid like 10bucks for mine, check the pressure in the lines, how old are spark plugs/wires?

Erratic problems like this are often traced to an electrical problem. Either the coil/s getting weak, the electronic spark control, the wires feeds these units, the plug wires, etc.
Electrical is affected by temperature, humidity, and mechanical malfunction.

The units are sealed and as they age the seal (often a tar or clear plastic material) develop cracks and allow in moisture and dirt. When the car runs heat will bake out the moisture but once it cools the moisture reforms and starts the problem over yet again.
Temperature is also a factor, sadly not in any one predictable way. Heat can cause problems as can cold.

Take note of the weather and what the conditions are when this happens, is there a pattern?

I'd first tune it up, new wires and plugs never hurt anything. Make sure all your electronic stuff connections are dry, clean and firmly seated. Get a can of electrical cleaner and also electrical grease. Clean each connection well, look at them for physical breakage or burning and reassemble with a small dollop of grease to seal out moisture.

GM is also famous for crappy wires. After years of flex (such as a door jamb, open and close, open and close, etc, or in a vibrating engine) the wires fatigue, get brittle and break inside of the insulation.

I know you were wanting a "replace this and your problems will be solved" answer but instead you've gotten a look at many things answer. Sorry.

If you are 100% positive you've got good fuel delivery and you know your engine has good compression and hasn't skipped time, electrical it is. Get a good wiring diagram a meter, a test light and go at it.

Dave

Update
Came home last night and put battery on charger. Got up this am to start fuel trouble shooting procedure. Got in car to try starting it to move it to a more suitable location ie driveway. Wouldn't ya know it started like it always has. The battery is dated Nov 07. After it started I checked the output of the alternator and its charging 14.5v. So the alternator is attempting to recharge it.

I'm starting to remember that I let the car sit for a day or two and rode my Harley to work because of nice 70 deg weather. Thats when I started having trouble. As long as I drove it every day it was fine. Might have a bad cell in it.

Thanks for the post Mr Keevil because of your words I started thinking of the whole picture. A bad battery will run you in circles with an electrical problem. I was chasing a ghost. Hopefully its a positive fix. I will keep this thread updated because even I like to know the end results when I read others threads.

To Josh Ferry:
I don't know what HID's are but you can usually get a different alternator with a higher output. They make them for cars with power windows and ect. Your best bet is find an auto electric shop in the phone book near you. Take your car there and ask them if they have one that would do what your needing. They probably have one on the shelf ready to go. Also you can hook up a transformer/amplifier between your power source and whatever you are running to step up the voltage or amperage for a single application. Just be sure to put an inline fuse between it and the power to protect your car and its electronic engine control. You don't want to fry anything.

HID's are thoes bright ass headlights that you grow to hate if you see them on trucks when your in a car...

my amp to my subs has a voltage meter on it, when the system is down and the lights off its 14.5 lights on 14.5 system + lights on 12.5 >.<

I'm not looking into bigger alt's because of power to weight ratio, trying to beat my friends honda civic with a k20a3, vs ls2200 all motor its a losing battle but were close

I'll prob just do the big 3 that's been stickied and see if that helps

The alternator won't be any bigger, or weigh more lol just more power. It has to bolt into the same brackets as your original. Look into it.

see where i come from you gotta have big weight to have big power >.<

st00pid arkansas

Well Fellas,
Its a few days later. I bought a new battery after confirming the old one wouldn't hold a charge. Changed the fuel filter even though the old one was stamped purolator. I don't think it was the original filter. Anyhow its changed. I was unable to get my hands on a fuel pressure tester that would read above 7 psi. So I didn't bother checking the pressure. After installing the new battery and filter the car started fine. I test drove it about 10 miles. Thought my problems were over.

Got up this morning to go to work and same problem. Crank crank crank no start. Its getting aggravating! If I would of had a D953 Cat I would have made a boat anchor out of it, but the stupid thing runs great when it runs.

Guess I'll have to find an auto parts store I can rent a pressure tester for the fuel pump, and go from there. <sigh>

Update 1/20/10. Had to wait for Christmas and wife's Dec 31st Bday to pass before I could spend any more cash on this project.

The car would crank right away with a boost/jump. So I figured I must have a drainage on the battery ( alt diode bad) or the starter was draggin pulling too much amps/volts away from the consortium of sensors. So I pulled the alternator and starter and took them to a starter/alt rebuild shop. 20 bucks later found out alt checks good,and the diode is good, Starter had a bad front bearing causing greater draw. So, encouraged, I went home with my original rebuilt starter and reinstalled everything. Re-connected the battery Turned on the ignition switch and no fuel pump pre-pressure noise. Hmm Tried cranking but nothing. Crank crank crank. <sigh>. Checked the 10a fuse its good. swapped it with a new one just to make sure...still no fuel pump action. Soooo I have avoided the issue for as long as I can. I'm going to have to drain the gas and change out the friggin pump. Tell you what the engineers who designed this car better hope I never meet up with them esp if they are guys. I would kidnapp them and force them to take the entire car apart using standard everyday Joe tools no access to specialty factory made nothing!! Let them go and tell them they better quit this nonsense like putting a fuel pump in the tank with no access, or I'd pay them another visit !!!

no kidding... but thats how it goes...

If they had it their way, you wouldnt be able to do anything to your car without the dealer... and raises the time per job on everything!! its win win for them.. baaaaad for us...

OK new problem or maybe original problem exposed a little more. Anyway I charged up the new battery all day on the 20th. Installed the rebuilt starter and alternator, when I tried to start no pre-start pump noise therefore crank crank crank no start.

I let the car sit up with the battery hooked up until today 23rd. Went to try one last time to see if pump would turn on. Found Battery completely dead! Put volt meter on terminals no voltage. What the heck will cause a battery drain if the key switch is off and key out of the ignition, alternator diode is good, starter is good, and the trunk light is disconnected?? If I didn't need this boat anchor I'd haul it across the scales.
Also any ideas on where the fuel pump relay is located on a 94 vin H 2.0L ?? Chiltons shows it in a schematic but no location.

Any ideas ????

Thanks,
RK

Ok the saga continues.... 1/26/10

Found the courtesy lights circuit draining the battery. Pulled the fuses 1 at a time with a test light between the neg batt cable and the neg batt terminal. So, I just left that fuse out for now. Getting the thing running again is priority. I pulled a few wiring diagrams for the fuel pump system from all data pro at work. Found the relay via wire colors. There is only 3 together under the hood on the passenger side. I can jumper the pump at the relay plug and it runs but wont start the car. There is a notation on the diagram that says " to pump prime connector". Is that where the high pressure(47-45psi) for starting/overcoming the injectors comes from? I'm wondering if that is the root of the problem to begin with. It was coming on and you could hear it when you 1st turned the ignition switch to on for about 3 seconds before I let her sit for a month.
I really don't wanna drop the friggin fuel tank but things are beginning to point that way. Tell you what, if I do drop it I'll be cutting a hole in under the seat in back for access next time. I'll just get a piece of aluminum and cut it 2 inches bigger that the hole I cut and hold it down with a few short sheetmetal screws.
Anyway thanks for reading my post and as always any and all comments are welcome.

Update 1/30/10
Ok I'm sitting at work looking for fuel pumps. I googled 94 pont sunbird fuel pump and found a website that has several different models. Anyone have a preference? Like stay away from brand x ? Spectra $168.00, Delphi $73.21,Carter $104.79. I had a guy here at work having trouble with his suburban and said he put 2 oem from dealer in at 320 bucks a pop and they lasted only 2 yrs. Put an aftermarket on 3 yrs ago no more problems.

Thanks
RK

Ok Update 2/2/10

I dont guess anyone is reading this but just in case here goes:

I found service manuals on ebay for 18 bucks plus shipping. For $23 and change I now have the KNOWLEGE!! I feel like that cartoon He-man " I HAVE THE POWER" lol

The troubleshooting section on fuel systems is great! I did not know that the oil press switch is a backup circuit for the fuel pump. If the relay fails to power the pump the oil press switch closes after a bit of cranking and producing about 7psi of oil press thus powering up the fuel pump. This can cause slow starting symptoms. I didnt have time today but I plan on unplugging the oil press switch and checking to see if the fuel pump will still operate when I crank the engine. I don't think it will. Alas my relay may be to blame for all my troubles.

Right now when you turn the key to on the pump she aint a running for 3 seconds. I can jumper the relay and the pump will run but car wont start like that.

I still need to test the darn output pressure. I haven't found a pressure gauge to rent yet.

SUCCESS!!!!!!
The relay was bad but the other problem that cropped up was the fuse to the ecm was bad. Not blown just must have came loose on the inside. I was chasing the fuel pump pressure issue and decided to read another chapter in the Service manual. It said to look for the check engine light when the ignition switch is 1st turned on. I've been so busy chasing other problems I didnt bother to check. So for grins and giggles I went out there and turned the key on and no check eng light. So I checked the fuse and it looked ok but I decided to check it with a meter......No Good!
I robbed the radio fuse to test it and as soon as I turned the key on the check eng light illuninated and the pump ran for 2 seconds!!!!!
So I said what the heck. I reached in depressed the clutch and BAM! She started right up just like it should!!!!!

Now I have to reasemble the interior. I took the seats out and carpet out because of a window leak which I'm positive I fixed, so tomorrow I reinstall the innerds and go for a cruise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still have the courtesy lights causing the battery to drain but hey! Thats the least of my problems! I figure a new switch and that should go away as well.

Ok I haven't logged on in a good while. Just in case anyone is following stuff which I have no idea, here goes an update. I still had hard starting issues. But I was determined not to throw parts at it because 1st off I'm not rich. 2nd the car is old and is a beater I drive to work.
But She gets 30mpg and so I do want to continue driving it.

Just by chance I stopped at an autozone and grabbed a can of seafoam. Dumped it in the tank at fillup. WOW! Nearly made my hard starting issues disappear! So I suspect the injectors are clogged just enough to cause the starting issues, and after they are warmed up the diameter of the fuel spray nozzels open up slightly so that when the car engine is warm she'll start just like normal making you think there is nothing wrong. But when I let the car sit for 8hrs it was hard to start once again.

So I shall invest in a fuel line adapter to connect a can of 3M fuel injector cleaner and I'll bet my hard starting issues fade away.

Also I haven't been able to stop the rain leak. I think its coming from under the windshield on the drivers side. Anyone ever lift the windshield and reseal one? I cant get the trim to budge that runs vertical next to the edge. Probably call one of those mobile glass repair vans and ask them about it. I do have a small rock chip that could use a repair. Maybe while He's here I'll see if for a few extra bucks if He could reseal it.