Alright guys I've been talking with Phil Lindsay on here about intake manifold flanges, and so far he's come up with this:



Now, since I have access to a drill press and other machining equipment, I told him I want mine with no holes drilled or tapped for the stock fuel rail (because I'm not sure if I'll be using stock or something else). What we'll be doing for the PCV system (which you'll notice is built into channels in the stock manifold flange that draw from a small port in the head between #2 and #3 cylinder), is to simply drill a hole right through the flange so that it can be tapped for a barbed fitting to be installed in order to run a vacuum line from the flange to whatever plenum you happen to build for your manifold. Since the more of these he makes, the more the price can come down, I wanted to see if anyone else is interested in one. As far as different specs, or if you want holes drilled and tapped for the stock fuel rail, you'll have to talk to Phil about that. I'm merely posting to bring attention to it, Phil's the one handling the design and fabrication, and he can also give you an idea on prices.

The reason I'm pursuing this is that the intake manifold is probably one of the biggest barriers to my setup after the headwork is done. The diminutive plenum and excessively long runners are just going to be counterproductive when trying to make power at higher rpm levels, so I'm going to be building my own. Anyone else interested?




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if i didnt have everything together already i would be....and may still be. I would like to see some design scetches of what you are doing with the pcv setup.

also, what size are the ports being cut at.....and what provisions are there for the injectors themselves??

Interesting... Pricing, Phil?



fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

John Benham wrote:if i didnt have everything together already i would be....and may still be. I would like to see some design scetches of what you are doing with the pcv setup.

also, what size are the ports being cut at.....and what provisions are there for the injectors themselves??

The way I've been looking at this is just as a "bare-bones" flange, so that the end user can suit it to their needs if they don't want to follow the stock design. As far as the injectors go, all it would take to open up the flange to match the injector notches in the head would be a little bit of time with a dremel. For those who would want to move the injectors farther away from the head, you obviously wouldn't want to do that. Even if the notches were pre-machined, you'd still need to source bungs for the injectors and have them welded on, so there are a lot of factors to take into account there.

As for the pcv setup, its really quite simple. If you've ever pulled the stock intake manifold off, in the center there is a small "pocket" that surrounds the pcv port in the head between #2+#3 cylinders, and from this pocket go two channels that lead to each cylinder to draw the crankcase vapors into the engine and burn them off. The ecotec's pcv setup actually works almost exactly the same, believe it or not. With this flange, you'd just have a hole in the flange that matches to the port in the head that you can tap and install a fitting to run a vacuum line to your plenum. Its a lot easier (and will cost less) than having to machine the pocket and channels into the flange, and at that point you may as well machine in the channel for the factory o-ring, which all adds to manufacturing cost. Personally, I'd rather have a cheap, simple flange that I can do a lot of different things with for less money. I don't mind making a paper gasket for it.

I'm probably going to be getting at least two of these because theres a few different designs i'd like to try out and then later (much later) dyno them back-to-back.




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Jason, are you planning something like the one Dan (juicedz4) made for his beast?

Something along those lines, yes... Trying to go for tuned runner lengths with stacks on the ends also... Probably not as large of a plenum (but bigger than stock), and debating throttle body position...




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Scarab: You mentioned moving the injectors further from the head. I've seen that done, but it's only useful in apps where the engine revs so high that having the injectors in the stock location doesn't give the fuel enough of a chance to mix properly with the intake air charge. So you're right about how one (Most guys) wouldn't want them further away from the head than stock.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

As of right now im taking a guess at pricing, it would be around 100-125 ea. but if i get sawy around 5 it would drop around $10-$20. This is just an estimate, once me and scarab come up with a design I will take it to the shop that does my waterjet cutting and get a price on singles and lots. This will be made out of either 3/8" or 1/2" stainless or aluminum. prices will differ from thickness and material.

I make water get exhaust flanges. I used mine for my turbo manifold. Turned out great.


I make rear tie bars.


I make front k members.


If you have any other fabrication ideas let me know, Im a mechanical designer and have access to pretty much anything. I work at a stainless steel fab shop, so just about everything I make is 304 stainless! PM me for any questions or ideas!

Thanks!

OK well I did some research on the metals.
Below is a list of pricing for just the raw meterial at my cost. (5" x 16")
Im guessing that the water jet cutting will be around $50-$80 per individual piece.
If we get a lot of 5-10 im sure it will come down considerably.
So we are looking at a range of prices from $110-$195 plus shipping! (just a rough guess)
I think tomorrow I will take the design to the shop and get some actuall quotes.

6061 Aluminum 3/8" - $30
6061 Aluminum 1/2" - $40

304 Stainless Steel 3/8" - $85
304 Stainless Steel 1/2" - $105

316 Stainless Steel 3/8" - $95
316 Stainless Steel 1/2" - $115

1018 Cold Roll Steel 3/8" - $40
1018 Cold Roll Steel 1/2' - $45

A36 Hot Roll Steel 3/8" - $30
A36 Hot Roll Steel 1/2" - $35

1/2" 2024 Al?



fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

im definately in, i've been planning on making a sheet metal intake for a few months now, but i never got around to fab'ing up the flange. keep us updated on this!!! im definately in



hondas are like tampons.....every pu$$y needs one...
mildly built 99' ln2, eagle h-beam rods, wiseco forged alum. pistons, cusco oil catch, t3/t4 super 60 garret, tial 40 mm wastegate, hp tuners, prothane mount inserts, 2.5" exhaust.

listening... who knows when ill want to redo something

dan


YEP, my 60' times suck

247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor

Project updates and stuff: www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan@clubhousecustoms.com

Ok so some questions. I am trying to understan this if for anything at leas to gain more knowledge. I understood the idea of a plenum spacer like Madjack made but what exactly is the function of this plate?

Second question is Phil the subframe you made is that for the LN2 and 2200, and does or would it work with an automatic?


The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig

This flange is to create your own intake manifold, since there arent any for the 2.2.

Yes the subframe brace works with the automatic, its is on an automatic in the picture (my car) but you might scrape the ground, but as far as clearance for the oil pan and tranny pan, it fits fine!

I might also make a throttle spacer / flange for the 2.2, is anyone interested in that?

NOTEC ..... I checked into the 1/2" 2024 aluminum, and I wasnt able to get it 5" wide, which is what I need to make the flange!

However, if you can get a hold of a piece 1/2" x 5" x 16" 2024 aluminum, I would be able to get it cut for you, if you would pay for shipping!

Just a thought, sorry my distributor doesnt stock the proper size.

Wait, I just checked my other distributor and it would be $90 for the material!

DAMN!

how much for the rear tie bar and the front K-brace? also will both of those work with swaybars?

They will both work with sway bars. The rear tie bar come with an integrated breacket that will support the sway bar and the tie bar as one. The rear tie bar is $135 plus shipping, and includes the bar, brackets, and hardware (grade 8). This is a complete bolt on kit, instalation should take about 30 minutes. Rotten Banana bought one from me and was very impressed.

The front K-Member is $135 plus shipping also, this includes the bar (1 x 3 stainless rect), heim joints, aluminum radius rods, and misc hardware (grade 8). With this kit, minor fabrication is required. You will need to drill 6 1/2" holes in the subframe. This will work on automatics but has very very little ground clearance. I am lowered 3" and only have about 2" ground clearance. Im in the middle of redesigning it for more clearance.

PM me if interested, or if you have any other fabrication ideas or needs!

Just a thought here: How about making rocker cover spacers for the 2.2 and the 2200? And about the throttle spacer for the 2.2: Wrong engine! It's the 2200 that may use a throttle spacer. The 2.2 has the TB integral with the plenum, so a plenum spacer would be the proper item to make for it.

Oh yeah, just one more thing: Have you considered making anything exhaust wise for the LN2 in S-truck apps?




Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Phil,
As has been mentioned a couple of times above, I'm interested in a 3/4" plenum spacer, but I would like it in phenolic resin, for it's heat insulating properties. Can you get a hold of some and machine it?

Here's a picture of the one I made out of red oak (below a gasket, that I used as a template), bolts and my first attempt, that split on me.


The gasket is approximately 3 1/8" X 13 1/8". The resin should be durable enough, that it can be machined to approximately the same inside and outside dimensions of the gasket, though you might want to add about an 1/8" to the outside dimensions, for a little extra durability.

Mad Jack, is that for the 2.4? If that is the exact replica, you could send it to me and I could model it up for you and try to get it cut! I do not have any way to get a hold of phenolic. Do you?

That's for the '97 & older 2.2L OHV. That spacer is currently on the car. I could send you the gasket.

I've found type C (Canvas) 12" X 24" X 3/4" for about $100. That could make 3 spacers. I think the canvas laminate could finish up fine enough for a spacer. No real fine details to it.

Nickelin Dimer wrote:Just a thought here: How about making rocker cover spacers for the 2.2 and the 2200? And about the throttle spacer for the 2.2: Wrong engine! It's the 2200 that may use a throttle spacer. The 2.2 has the TB integral with the plenum, so a plenum spacer would be the proper item to make for it.

Oh yeah, just one more thing: Have you considered making anything exhaust wise for the LN2 in S-truck apps?

The point of the throttle body flange would be for those buying a head flange to make their own intake manifold, obviously it could be used as a spacer as well on certain apps, but the main idea was if you're building a manifold you need something to attach the TB to as well. For me, the TB flange is something small enough and simple enough for me to make in a day or less on the equipment at work, so I'll be making my own (also because I'm not sure what TB, or how many of them I'm going to end up using ).... The head flange would be pushing my current "quasi-amateur-machinist" credentials if I wanted it to actually fit properly and be finished any time soon. Since Phil has access to the waterjet and can use CAD, I went to him for it. Those that can't make the TB flange for themselves have the option of getting one from him, if they speak up.




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MADJACK, what is that gasket called? I could go buy one myself and model it up, if you are really interested.

Thanks, Im also looking into making a 2.4 exhaust flange.

Phil Lindsay wrote:MADJACK, what is that gasket called? I could go buy one myself and model it up, if you are really interested.

It's the upper intake manifold flange. I would definately be in for one of those as well, and I'm guessing quite a few people are also looking for one because it is almost necessary for the 2200 top-feed conversion.



fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

Lol. I never stop getting a good laugh whenever I see that wooden spacer.
Bless you MJ.