AEM warm air power loss. - Performance Forum
Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Last year I picked up an AEM warm air intake and a cat back exhaust. I didnt really notice any performance increase witch was no surprise since it was just and intake and cat back. The other day when I was cleaning the AEM filter I put the stock intake back on just for the hell of it and now I dont think I will put AEM back on. The car has more low end torque with stock intake and I cant tell any difference in top end power. The AEM might increase peak HP a little bit although not enough to even notice but definetly lacks in low end. Since the car is a daily driver the low end power is much more important to me than 2 more HP at the top. Anyone else have a similar experience? Just thought this might save someone a waste of time and money. The AEM looks and sounds good but I have no use for it anymore.
your factory system is a cheesy CAI. all you really get from an aftermarket WAI is a smoother tube. you could get a aftermarket CAI, there will be more of a difference that way
____________________________________
Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.
i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Working on obtainting an M-Class license... ?? Hint: 2 wheels.
Toronto Cavalier wrote:i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Relax buddy, it doesnt matter how much difference in temp there is a cold air intake is getting a nice breath of fresh air and a warm air/short ram is not. That is why it can be called a WAI.
I must be putting down more than 200 hp right now since it's like -30 degrees Celcius here !
2003 Ecotec Z24
14.88 @ 93.92 mph
Jbody 420 wrote:Toronto Cavalier wrote:i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Relax buddy, it doesnt matter how much difference in temp there is a cold air intake is getting a nice breath of fresh air and a warm air/short ram is not. That is why it can be called a WAI.
Indeed... It's like the difference between trying to breathe in a room with an air-temp of 68* (And moist, at that!) versus trying to breathe in one with dry, 98* air (Try it sometime... You'll see what I mean!).
Plus, this really adds... or should I say
aids... to my arguement of fabbing a FAI (Fresh Air Intake) system. By routing sizable hoses from the air filter container to where they open into the headwind the car sees as it rolls down the road, cool air is easily collected in abundance in the air-filter box of the engine to breathe at it's leasure... as opposed to relying on the engine's vacuum to draw whatever it maty need into it. This, in turn, aids fuel mileage greatly while driving. Especially under cruise.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Vitamin E (AKA Eddie) wrote:CavRacing01 wrote:here are 2 of the following that will help
this:
http://www.induction-dynamics.com/sunfirecavaliergrandamalero24l.html
and this:
http://www.rdfabs.com/24_caint.php
Wow! The RDfabs is just as expensive as the AEM. Get the AEM instead. At least then you get a cool sticker that will make more horsepower than those two intakes combined.
Keep your existing intake and get a Weapon R Cold Air box. It encloses your filter to keep out the heat from the engine. I have one and it works good, with some modification. It needs a little trimming to fit pefect, and the are some noticeable gaps in places. I bought a piece of vinyl at home depot thats used for non-skid on tool box tops, and cut pieces to cover the gaps. Also the box just has an opening behind the battery to draw air, I ran a piece of 3 inch aluminum intercooler tubing to the fender opening where the stock intake went through the unibody.
After all was said and done I had the performance of the AEM CAI i used to have, with none of the worries about deep puddles during the summer rains. I am very happy with my current set-up.
Yes I know AEM makes a "bypass valve" to prevent this, I also know 2 things about that valve....1 on the Ecos it rubs the power steering box, 2 it hurt performance. I think it was opening under full throttle, letting in the hot air, defeating the purpose of the CAI.
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for something new? How about an off topic forum where you can truly express your opinions without interference of mods or admins?
Join verbalwarfare.com
http://www.verbalwarfare.com/forum.php?referrerid=86
Personally I don't know why you guys are so paranoid about hydrolock... I had my AEM CAI fitted on the sunflower in late spring through to early winter. I went from 81k to 135k with the AEM CAI on. 3 hour drive everyday. I drove through crazy amounts of rain and quite a bit of snow before I took it off for the stock one. I admit i had researched the horror stories some people had, and I was worried when it rained. But nothing ever bad happened. I never even felt any bogging. The only problem was that the filter was starting to freeze up, and I didn't want to suffocate it with ice over the winter, so back on went the stock and i threw in a k&n drop in filter.
Still though, don't go looking for puddles to drive through on purpose.
when it comes to heavy rains down here in FL, I'll take it off.. wel, not off - I take out the coupling in the engine bay connecting the hard pipe the the plastic one. my inner fender lining is missing, exposing the filter to the tire and the unGodly amount of water splattered all over it during driving in the rain
R.I.P. JessE Gerard 7.11.87 - 1.25.08
The Radiation Nation Facebook Twitter Twisted Metal Alliance
I just want to clear somthing up for those of you who dont know. When you change the air temp of the incoming air yes it may be more dense. The cooler the air the more gas our ecus dumb into our cylinders and that may give you a little more power but not much. Colder air = poorer gas mileage. Using the pretty shiney aluminum tubes as intakes for our cars certainly do provide less resistance then the mess of mazes that came with the car. However there is heat soak with all metal intakes, and it will warm the incoming air a bit more. There used to be an after market intake from iceman that was plastic. It was only a short ram intake but if you wanted to maket it a cold air intake. It would be about the same process.
This is just further proof on what many have said about the WAIs and that the statement "an intake is an intake" is false.
My AEM CAI is completely and thoroughly kick ass.
2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.
Vitamin E (AKA Eddie) wrote:CavRacing01 wrote:here are 2 of the following that will help
this:
http://www.induction-dynamics.com/sunfirecavaliergrandamalero24l.html
and this:
http://www.rdfabs.com/24_caint.php
Wow! The RDfabs is just as expensive as the AEM. Get the AEM instead. At least then you get a cool sticker that will make more horsepower than those two intakes combined.
wow, thats quite possibly the gheyest thing I have ever heard......
RD Fabs piece is not only an intake, but a hand polished piece of stainless art. Very fine piece, and very nice guys to deal with.
Mike85220 wrote:This is just further proof on what many have said about the WAIs and that the statement "an intake is an intake" is false.
My AEM CAI is completely and thoroughly kick ass.
2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.
HOLY SHIOT IT IS SO KICKASS THAT NOPI EDITION GIVE IT EXTRA 75WHP!!!!
___________________________________________________________________
Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
Toronto Cavalier wrote:i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Show me one instance when there is a difference in intake air temps of more than 30 degrees Fahrenheit between engine bay induction versus outside air...and there are more issues with cooler air charges than you seem to realize. For very cool charges (you claim 100 degree difference) you run into problems of not vaporizing the fuel completely and cylinder wetting.
This whole thread wreaks of noob oversimplification.
I have no signiture
Whalesac wrote:Toronto Cavalier wrote:i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Show me one instance when there is a difference in intake air temps of more than 30 degrees Fahrenheit between engine bay induction versus outside air...and there are more issues with cooler air charges than you seem to realize. For very cool charges (you claim 100 degree difference) you run into problems of not vaporizing the fuel completely and cylinder wetting.
This whole thread wreaks of noob oversimplification.
Yeah but what if I was to hook up a secondary alternator and use the extra current to power a bank of peltier devices which have the cold side hot glued to the outside of my warm air intake and the cold air intake pipe running from my turbonator back out the hotside and into my HVAC unit used like a boost controller???
What now Whalesac you had not though of that!??!?! Mister Smarty Pants!
___________________________________________________________________
Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
lol...That is entirely too much brilliance outpouring in one sentence. My mind just explodededededed
I have no signiture
BlackEco wrote:Whalesac wrote:Toronto Cavalier wrote:i hate wen ppl say warm air. theres no such thing. its called a short ram intake.
every 10 degrees F is suposed to be worth almost 1% horsepower increase. so if the cold air being drawn in is 100 degrees less than the hot air in the middle of your engine bay being sucked in by a shrot ram you will make almost 10% horsepower increase. a 115hp 2200 2.2L should increase 8-9 HP. 115 x 0.1 = 11.5 then factor in that its a bit less than 10% plus the extra lengh and bends in the long intake decrease hp.
Show me one instance when there is a difference in intake air temps of more than 30 degrees Fahrenheit between engine bay induction versus outside air...and there are more issues with cooler air charges than you seem to realize. For very cool charges (you claim 100 degree difference) you run into problems of not vaporizing the fuel completely and cylinder wetting.
This whole thread wreaks of noob oversimplification.
Yeah but what if I was to hook up a secondary alternator and use the extra current to power a bank of peltier devices which have the cold side hot glued to the outside of my warm air intake and the cold air intake pipe running from my turbonator back out the hotside and into my HVAC unit used like a boost controller???
What now Whalesac you had not though of that!??!?! Mister Smarty Pants!
I am SO totally gonna do that...
==============================================================
Yes, noob, the search button is for you...
What this is all a matter of is oxygen content... The more oxygen you have entering the cylinder, the more fuel that can be mixed with it and make more power when it's compressed & ignited. Same story with nitrous... I tmakes more power be cause 1). It has a higher oxygen content than the earth's atmosphere, and 2). It's forced into the cylinder (Essentually) with additional fuel added. But that's a given, so... But the key difference here is that we're not so much forcing the air in as just collecting it for the engine to ingest as it may (Duh). And we don't need to seek refills to keep it happening.
And did anyone read what I last posted? By opening the end of the ducting into the headwind the car sees while moving forward, we're allowing the headwind to help the cooler air reach the air-cleaner. I'm not saying it compresses the air... much like a turbo or blower. But it does give the engine more cool air to breathe. And that cooler air contains more oxygen, so the more that the engine has available to it to breathe... Well, you get the idea.
AS for the arguement of fuel vaporization... Hello! It's fuel-injected! This system of fuel delivery was gone with in production partailly because spraying the fuel under high pressure helps atomize it, which in turn helps it mix with the incoming air (Vaporization!). So just increase the pressure slightly & shorten the "on" pulsewidth accordingly... You'll get your vaporization back. And try insulating the fuel lines, while you're at it.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
^^^^^^^^ I really don't know what to say to anything you ever post. They usually just make me throw-up.
Regarding nitrous (not sure what that has to do with this post). 1) Yes, you are correct, air has significantly less oxygen content than nitrous. 2) No, nitrous is not "forced" into the cylinder. If it were, that means your manifold is under pressure and there would be equal amounts spraying out of your intake as well. When nitrous is sprayed, your engine "Natural aspirates" the intake charge which has been enriched with nitrous oxide.
Yes there is a larger number of oxygen molecules per volume for colder charges of air which I would hope no one would disagree with. I also know exactly what you were talking about with your FRESH AIR INTAKE. You talk about it so damn much it makes my eyes bleed every time I see you post it... and it isn't some revolutionary concept.
Regarding fuel injection. Fuel injection was developed to provide correct proportions of fuel for every engine load whereas a carburetor simply can't. A carburator doesn't need higher pressures to atomize the fuel because it is much farther away from the valve. If your injectors are placed at the ends of the runners near the plenum, then fine, you'll get better atomization of the fuel. Problem is, most fuel injected engines spray directly at the valve. The hot valve can only vaporize some of the fuel. The rest is up to cylinder geometry (swirl) and temperature. Direct injection is the only method of fueling right now to almost instantly atomize the fuel. You also can't just increase fuel pressure to whatever the hell you want and expect the injectors to last. You probably don't even realize how much more fuel is wasted on cold starts because most of the fuel doesn't atomize. I can assure you it isn't a linear relationship with temperature either.
Anyways, I hate arguing with you. It makes me feel like I'm talking to a tree with fingers...... or at best a really confused hippie.
I have no signiture
^^^^ Sorry for the intensity of my previous post. Just reading it now, I realize I was much harsher on you than I had originally intended to be. Sorry.
I have no signiture
Once unleashed tis' hard to control thy fury of the sac.
___________________________________________________________________
Hahn Stage II - Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Turbo-back Exhaust | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | Team Green LSD | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
Hey, I just felt like no one was listening. Tis'all... I also accept your apology.
And in my defence, I'd like to say the following... since you brought-up the topics:
1) I know FAI is nothing new. It's just every time I see one of these threads start about WAI vs. CAI, I get the feeling that fabbing a FAI is a lost (Sometimes... maybe even forgotten) art. To paraphrase Memphis Reins (Nicolas Cage): The are too-many stary-eyed hot-rodding wannabes with too-damn-much money to blow on whatever bolt-on Hot Topic part comes down the tubes! There were folk like that before... in the early-days of street-rodding & since... but there seems to be even more now than ever before. I'm sick of it & Hollywood isn't helping.
2) I studied for ASE Certification for four years, so I know what happens in terms of fuel atomization under all conditions in relation to system design & during engine operation. I just suggested an idea based off how when VW decided to build a diesel engine with a secondary pump for each injector. The fuel atomized better, and better mileage & emissions resulted. Since many here seem keen on the idea of playin' with the gap of their plugs when they install an MSD box, and then cleaning & re-gapping them withing about 10,000mi, swapin' injectors after 'bout twice that should seem like childsplay to them.
3) You are correct... NOx is naturally ingested into the engine. But, the gas is under pressure in the bottle & as it leaves the nozzle from which it's emitted. Like the fuel from an injector, it's "forced" into the manifold. That's what I meant. Of course if anyone here is familiar with how a NOS works, well then... You already knew that & understood what I meant.
There. Now that I've had my say... Back to the show!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
