My engine guy mentioned that I should look into getting solid roller lifters for my 2.2. He said he was un aware if they are even made. I figured that someone out there probably custom does them, but wasnt sure who. Does anyone here know of any solid roller lifters made for a 2200. Im building a 96' cavalier engine for racing and didnt wanna leave anything out. Please lmk if any of youall can help. Thanks!

You should do some searching. Lots of good LN2 info here. Some buried, some right in the open. I just posted an update to the OHV lifter thread which talks about this question.

-->Slow.

Sorry, i must have just looked over that thread. I did find it this time however. Awesome thread with some great information! Very Helpful. I shall use one of those great ideas. Thankyou very much!

Please post results if you try something. It's good inspiration for the next guy.

-->Slow

Mech-rollers in the LN2? MAn, how high is one looking to rev it to need that? 12,500rpms?


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

The stock hydraulic roller lifters are only good to about 6250 rpm with a proper valve train and M-98 oil pump and maybe 6750 with the LT1/LSX hybrid hydraulic roller lifters. There are those who've run over 8000 rpm with the LT1/LN2 hybrid mechanical roller lifters.

That must be some racket coming from that motor!

If your mindset about GM 4-cyls is like my buddy's ("They all make valvetrain noise...") you won't notice the difference.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Quote:

That must be some racket coming from that motor!

Well, the engine I heard sounded good from the stands. That was sitting right inline with the finish line so plenty of revs.

-->Slow

I was actually thinking more along the line of the 8k buzz like the NASCAR Daytona Dash cars made!

Needless to say, I haven't heard too many modified GM 4 cyl OHV motor that didn't rattle a bit. The Dash cars just cackled at idle, with the solid lifters clacking along (if you could hear them over the exhaust).

^My thinking exactly! The only time I ever heard a stock OHV GM 4-cyl tick was when it developed a bearing knock, had the lifters plugged-up with metal fragments (We all know that story of mine by now... Don't we?) or briefly, just after cold start-up. Since the lifter design is that same as found in V-6 & V-8 engines, I think my friend don't know what he's talking about.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

I'm the guy that made the solid lifters from SLOWOLEJ's thread. The motor does not "RATTLE" at 8,000 nor do the solids clatter any more than the hydraulics. The motor is NOT a bone stock 200,000 miler. If you look at my classified AD "97 CAV- Late Model stock car" you'll see this motor has quite a bit done to it. Even hand filed ring gaps for each CYL and balanced with clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel attached. You might want to urge SLOWOLEJ to post PICS of the intake he helped me develope with a 5.7L TB, it's a direct bolt on and plug( except for changing the IAC plug). Even the stock throttle cable works.It's was on the car for the the last 6 nights of the season and just like the solid lifters, worked perfectly. I sent SLOWOLEJ a DVD of our LN2 racing against V-8's at Deerfield Raceway in Ohio. You can hear the motor, there's no problem with the high RPM's or the rattling. My team mate ( JAMES GATTO) and I have won 137 races in 4yrs( this past year against V-8's), I send Videos and news clippings to Slowolej every year, so he can vouch for me.

Relax, Raymond... I wasn't downin' the LN2, if that's what you're thinking. I was just saying what my experienece with OHV 4-cyls was, thats's all. And I'm glad to hear how the double-Deuce you built is holding so strongly... especially against V-8s! So glad to see someone prove that it's not an either V-8 or DOHC I-4 world when it comes to racing & winning.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

SORRY-- It wasn't aimed at anyone. I was just trying to give a little background on myself as everyone seemed skeptical of the solid lifters and the RPM's. I don't post very often so some people might think I don't know what I am talking about. I also got to plug my car AD,as I will be turning 60 next month and it's time to get out of racing and get a rocking chair. I think there's a ton of technology in the car for a very cheap price. Ray

No skepticism about them from me... I've got connections that had BBC's running on methanol into the high-7's, and it ran solid-rollers. In fact, he even ran it on the street sometimes (Big cubes, relatively small cam). The engine was so well assembled that a hydra-roller was all it needed to make it indestructable in terms of life-span in daily street use. But like I said... It ran on the street with the solid-roller okay.

60, eh? Guess that makes you one of the rare ones my father (73) talks about in that sayin' he whips out every once in awhile: There are old drivers, and there are bold drivers. But there are very few old, bold drivers.

That prompted me to concieve a few of my own:

Overconfidence kills... Incompetence is suicide.

A hot car don't make up for a chit driver.

All the technological developments that are common on cars now (Stability-control, ABS, traction control) are meant to complement good driving skills... Not be a substitute for them in their absence.

A my personal favorite (You listening, Eddie Griffin?): You may have the skills to earn the bills to own something hot, but it's not a guarantee that you have the skills worthy of driving it.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nickelin Dimer wrote:
All the technological developments that are common on cars now (Stability-control, ABS, traction control) are meant to complement good driving skills... Not be a substitute for them in their absence.

Eh, Im of the opinion they are a BIG hinderance to anyone who actually knows how to drive...



Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

Alex Richards wrote:

Nickelin Dimer wrote:
All the technological developments that are common on cars now (Stability-control, ABS, traction control) are meant to complement good driving skills... Not be a substitute for them in their absence.

Eh, Im of the opinion they are a BIG hinderance to anyone who actually knows how to drive...

I have heard that arguement before... from my buddy, Mr. "Ol' S'kool" rodder. If you can swich them off, and feel need to, fine. If you can't & can learn to work with them, good! The only real trouble area seems to be the ABS found on most domestic models. It's not a true 4-channel system, and can be very tempermental on undulating pavement. Case in point: My buddy again. He's had a '98 S-truck & currently a '07 Silverado. His complaint is if he hits a pothole while braking, the ABS activates unnecessarily. And with a vengance! The feedback (pulsing) is so strong it's annoying! I'm sure higher-end cars with ABS don't have this woe, but for those whom can drive but can't afford "The good stuff", it's a pain. Oh well... that's what being able to learn to work with things is about!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Goin back to the Roller projection of this thread though. Has anyone tried the LS1 Spings in the 2.2l lifters? I was going to try it, but wasnt sure how it worked out for most people. I know its not a "Solid Lifter", but i plan on turning around 7,000 rpms alot with 13-1 compression engine. I just wondered if this would be "enough". And I didnt want to slotter my engine the first time out for trying something new.

Nickelin Dimer wrote:

Alex Richards wrote:

Nickelin Dimer wrote:
All the technological developments that are common on cars now (Stability-control, ABS, traction control) are meant to complement good driving skills... Not be a substitute for them in their absence.

Eh, Im of the opinion they are a BIG hinderance to anyone who actually knows how to drive...

I have heard that arguement before... from my buddy, Mr. "Ol' S'kool" rodder. If you can swich them off, and feel need to, fine. If you can't & can learn to work with them, good! The only real trouble area seems to be the ABS found on most domestic models. It's not a true 4-channel system, and can be very tempermental on undulating pavement. Case in point: My buddy again. He's had a '98 S-truck & currently a '07 Silverado. His complaint is if he hits a pothole while braking, the ABS activates unnecessarily. And with a vengance! The feedback (pulsing) is so strong it's annoying! I'm sure higher-end cars with ABS don't have this woe, but for those whom can drive but can't afford "The good stuff", it's a pain. Oh well... that's what being able to learn to work with things is about!

My example would be if your road racing, coming down into something like a hairpin hard on the brakes, or under hard braking coming up over a blind corner and if you know the car you can feel when your about to lock up and if it does you've already anticipated and can modulate the brake pressure accordingly to at least reduce the amount of wheel lock you experience. No problem, you get through the corner with no incident.

Now add ABS. ABS kicks in when it senses the wheel lock and initiates the release, apply, hold release pulsation, Now even in our newer (00+) ABS units typically in a quick activation and deactivation it can take up to a full second between start and stop. a Full second. ABS is meant to enable you to remain in steering control of the vehicle while braking, not reduce stopping distance, its been said that it extends stopping distance by up to 60%. So in this scenario, before you've even apexed the corner, youve gone two lanes wider then you should have and your either off the track, or straight into the side of whoever is on the outside of you. Not good, either way. And VERY frustrating.

As far as traction control, well again, frustrating at best, if your road racing and you have problems with traction there needs to be gear ratios changed or the torque band of the engine needs to be modified. I'd rather have the power when I need it if I need it and be in complete control of every single bit of it. But I have less of a case against TC then I do ABS.



Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards

MadJack wrote:The stock hydraulic roller lifters are only good to about 6250 rpm with a proper valve train and M-98 oil pump and maybe 6750 with the LT1/LSX hybrid hydraulic roller lifters. There are those who've run over 8000 rpm with the LT1/LN2 hybrid mechanical roller lifters.

That must be some racket coming from that motor!

With the LT1 hybrid hydraulic and LT1 hybrid mechanical roller lifters, is that something I could just buy or would I have to find a stock LT1 set then find some way to modify it??? Im new to the bottom end of engines...

Alex Richards wrote:

Nickelin Dimer wrote:

Alex Richards wrote:

Nickelin Dimer wrote:
All the technological developments that are common on cars now (Stability-control, ABS, traction control) are meant to complement good driving skills... Not be a substitute for them in their absence.

Eh, Im of the opinion they are a BIG hinderance to anyone who actually knows how to drive...

I have heard that arguement before... from my buddy, Mr. "Ol' S'kool" rodder. If you can swich them off, and feel need to, fine. If you can't & can learn to work with them, good! The only real trouble area seems to be the ABS found on most domestic models. It's not a true 4-channel system, and can be very tempermental on undulating pavement. Case in point: My buddy again. He's had a '98 S-truck & currently a '07 Silverado. His complaint is if he hits a pothole while braking, the ABS activates unnecessarily. And with a vengance! The feedback (pulsing) is so strong it's annoying! I'm sure higher-end cars with ABS don't have this woe, but for those whom can drive but can't afford "The good stuff", it's a pain. Oh well... that's what being able to learn to work with things is about!

My example would be if your road racing, coming down into something like a hairpin hard on the brakes, or under hard braking coming up over a blind corner and if you know the car you can feel when your about to lock up and if it does you've already anticipated and can modulate the brake pressure accordingly to at least reduce the amount of wheel lock you experience. No problem, you get through the corner with no incident.

Now add ABS. ABS kicks in when it senses the wheel lock and initiates the release, apply, hold release pulsation, Now even in our newer (00+) ABS units typically in a quick activation and deactivation it can take up to a full second between start and stop. a Full second. ABS is meant to enable you to remain in steering control of the vehicle while braking, not reduce stopping distance, its been said that it extends stopping distance by up to 60%. So in this scenario, before you've even apexed the corner, youve gone two lanes wider then you should have and your either off the track, or straight into the side of whoever is on the outside of you. Not good, either way. And VERY frustrating.

As far as traction control, well again, frustrating at best, if your road racing and you have problems with traction there needs to be gear ratios changed or the torque band of the engine needs to be modified. I'd rather have the power when I need it if I need it and be in complete control of every single bit of it. But I have less of a case against TC then I do ABS.

Alex... What you're talking about in the first sentence is threshold-braking. A lost art in street driving these days, and I dig what you mean by it being a "full-sensory" driver myself. That means I need to feel every aspect of feedback in regards to the vehicle's movement to drive it, not just see what way it's going. That's why I don't play most driving games... They lack emersion.

Anyway, I learned long ago the value of threshold braking. Saved myself from what could have been one messy accident in a early-'70s full-size because of it. I also used to run gymkahna (Auto-cross they call it now) so I totally dig waht you say.


Now, back to the show!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Threshold braking WITH ABS.

"Here's the info on the solid lifters (they worked perfectly) Take .035 off the bottom of the LT1 plunger, use the body, pushrod cup, oil metering washer, and the retaining clip from the 2.2L OHV lifter. I've had them over 8000 RPM. Don't waste your time changing the springs, this is quicker and just as quiet. Set the valve lash @ .008"

Some of you might be interested in some parts coming off my car. I'm selling my custom sheet metal intake with am ls1 throttle body on it. It also accepts top feed injectors so that you can put whatever size you want. My turbo kit and pretty much all of my go fast parts are for sale. Let me know if you're interested in anything.

The OHV lifter thread goes with my last thread.

Way to go, Ray!


Go beyond the "bolt-on".