Has anyone tryed the stage one cams for the eco. Just curious if they are worth the money. Thanks for any help. Don't post if your gonna rip on me either.

Here is my view on it.
From what I have read, the stage 1 and stage 3 do not require a tune.
Without a tune though, they really don't get utilized optimally.

The stage 1 will give you around 5 more horsepower without a tune.
The stage 3 will give you around 12 more.

With a tune, you can get a few more ponies out of either.

But... add up the hp, and look at the price.

If I were going to ultimately go forced air, I would keep the stock cam.

If I were going all motor, I wouldn't waste my time with the stage 1.

While the head is disassembled, get those high RPM springs and possibly get some porting or larger valves in there. It cost the same to get a stage 1 or 3 in, and the 3 has twice the output.

Also, they are very lopey sounding, like an old muscle car. Sounds awesome!

Just my opinion, I know I will here other opinions in just a minute.


2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.

I meant hear...not here...


2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.

^^^^^^^^ WHAT?




Ok Stage 1 cams are good for a daily driver car. There alot like a bolt on rather then a major mod. They dont require a tune but if you make any major change to the internals to your car it would be a good idea to tune your car. Why go with stage 1 cams? because you can just drop them in with out having to replace stock valve springs and adding to the cost and complexity of doing your cams.

With stage 1 cams all you need to do is pull the valve cover to get at the cams and you dont need to pull the head to replace springs and valves and that means you don't need to buy a new head gasket and head bolts/studs.

And idling ive never heard a 4 cylinder fuel injected (i dont care how big the cams were) engine idle like a V8 w/ a carburetor... To other people that loping idling that 4cylinders have just makes it sound like theres something wrong with our cars

With stage 1 cams your peak horsepower will be right around(6500) the stock redline.. (stock cams make peak power at like 5500 RPM) with stage 3 its some where above 8500k.. (our ignition timing stops somewere at like 6200RPM and fuel cuts at around 8k) This means that the potential of the cams is more then what you can achieve with the stock computer and tuning with HPTuners..

Now if you did everything right and paid for like 94lbs duel valve springs light weight valves a new head gasket and head studs and you want to fork out the money you could attempt at advancing your ignition and controlling your fuel by other means (piggy back system or a stand alone) they by all means go ahead and do that.

But i'm just taking a guess here and assuming your just wondering if you'd notice a difference with Stage1 cams.. Just because they have a 1 behind the stage doesn't mean there weak. The cam profile is totally different from stock cams. It wont feel economic if that helps answer your question.

wow that was an amazing explanation of stage one cams props to you, i may go buy some to thow on my DD based on that alone.

SS-J wrote:^^^^^^^^ WHAT?


And idling ive never heard a 4 cylinder fuel injected (i dont care how big the cams were) engine idle like a V8 w/ a carburetor... To other people that loping idling that 4cylinders have just makes it sound like theres something wrong with our cars.

I take it you haven't heard Airtonics car have you?











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

WHITECAVY wrote:

SS-J wrote:^^^^^^^^ WHAT?


And idling ive never heard a 4 cylinder fuel injected (i dont care how big the cams were) engine idle like a V8 w/ a carburetor... To other people that loping idling that 4cylinders have just makes it sound like theres something wrong with our cars.

I take it you haven't heard Airtonics car have you?

I have not.. I take it i'm missing something aren't I?



And i forgot to add higher flowing fuel injectors to the list of thing needed for stage 3 cams..

^^lol its all good. Ill try to find his vids when he posted them a while ago. He has a significant 'lope' with his new cams. Not big V8 sounding, but definately not 4 banger sounding brb











~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Here ya go, freakin sic

http://www.airtonics.com/cavalier/videos/compcamidle.wmv

The link to the actual thread.

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=46&i=364251&t=363578&p=1









~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

angry car lol, i wish i knew where the 2.4 with w41 cams in it video is, it sounds evil

Ok, thanks, I just wanted a pair for my daily driver and wanted to know if the gain was worth it, only 370 or something on jbodyperformance.com or something around that and they claim 5 hp, just wanted to know about the difference. How hard are they to install, I was thinking about takin it to a shop to get it done.

Quote:

because you can just drop them in with out having to replace stock valve springs and adding to the cost and complexity of doing your cams.

I addressed this, but for the difference in gains and the fact the head is already apart, you mind as well work the head while your there.

If he is sold on the stage 1 cams, then I hope he is doing all the work and not having a shop do it to make it worth the money spent.

If I had the head all apart, I would go all the way.

A tune is definitely recommended, and I did say that, but you can run it without- it just is not optimum.

Get the stage 1s, fine with me.


2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLL4L-Kl14A

Here is one guy with loping cams in his Cav.


2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.

Mike85220 wrote:

Quote:

because you can just drop them in with out having to replace stock valve springs and adding to the cost and complexity of doing your cams.

I addressed this, but for the difference in gains and the fact the head is already apart, you mind as well work the head while your there.

If he is sold on the stage 1 cams, then I hope he is doing all the work and not having a shop do it to make it worth the money spent.

If I had the head all apart, I would go all the way.

A tune is definitely recommended, and I did say that, but you can run it without- it just is not optimum.

Get the stage 1s, fine with me.

If hes just replacing the cams he doesn't need to pull the head. You can replace the Camshafts on an Ecotec by just removing the valve cover. Its going to take a couple special tools (like timing chain holders and special wrenches for the bolts and what have you) (There's a write up some place.. search will yield the answers) But any reputable shop should have or be able to do that job without problems.

If he purchased stage 3 cams and dropped them in with out spending the money on the things to prepare for it (injectors springs and HPtuners) with no tune his car would barley idle.. it would more then likely throw codes.. top end his injectors would start clipping.. his valves would probable float and ware out.. not to mention a significant drop in bottom end power and torque.. (you know anything under 4k where our cars main operating power band would be at) i'm probably missing something else here.. but the idea is it wouldn't be pretty.. sure down a track where your redlining the whole time it would be a blast.. but driving through a school zone and your car keeps dieing or sound like it wants to that's not so fun.

The point of stage 1 cams is that you keep your bottom end and add more top end (top end as in where the cars meant to be driven top end... not 10,000K top end). There meant to be for the daily driven car. You can hand the keys to your friend say "hey take my car" and your friend wont come back and go "dude there something wrong with your car" and with stage 1 cams say you have a full exhaust.. motor mounts.. tranny mounts.. a nice cold air intake.. and stage 1 cams.. if you wanted to go with a nitrous set up your car would make better power with a 50 shot... in fact with a 50 shot (meant to add roughly 50 horse power it would probable make something like 60 horse power with that slightly more aggressive camshaft.) And Tuning with stage 1 cams playing with the fuel table and advancing the ignition you could probably get a stage 1 cammed cavi down the track as fast if not faster then somebody who just got the GM supercharge kit and bolted and reflashed that. That is the point of stage 1 cams..

There's so much speculation & misinformation in this thread. I really have no idea where SS-J or Mike are getting these numbers but even the rpm ranges for the cams are inaccurate.

Regardless of which comp cam you choose you'll need a tune, larger injectors and upgraded valvetrain which will require removal of the cylinder head. Even the least aggressive cam from comp is over .400 lift and, the stock springs bind at anything over .300 lift. There was a long post about this in the performance forum a while back. So by the time you add the price of the cams, the valvetrain, head gasket and other misc things like cam gears which you'd be best off with it gets pricey very quickly. The horsepower gain can be decent with ported head and other supporting mods though. I ran 14.5@98 with a base tune on street tires after my engine build with the stock compression ratio, head, cams, removed bal shafts etc...







12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62

One of the online stores listed the Stage I and Stage III not needing a retune to run.
The Stage II needed a tune in order to run.

It is true that the Stage I and III will work work optimally with a tune, but they specifically posted it was not necessary.
It is a guess that it wont idle right.

Or perhaps a different brand and a different cam profile you speak of.

Different companies possibly have a different variation on what a "stage" is profile wise.

I will find that online store again and post the link.

I hate when that website pops up everytime except when I need it to prove a point.


2003 Sunfire with 2 1/4 inch turbo muffler, 2 1/4 piping, 2 1/2 inch resonator, a 2 1/4 inch catalytic converter, 2 1/2 inch down-pipe, a 4:2:1 RK Sports 'clone' header, E-bay strut brace, ground wire kit and an AEM true cold air intake NOPI edition.

I was always under the assumption that if you wanted something more streetable, but still more aggressive, stage one cams were the best option (I could imagine these doing well in a car built all motor for autocross, as they keep the revs fairly low, and it's my understanding that autocross is a little easier with more low end torque). If you wanted to run lots of high RPM HP (drag strip, circle track and similar applications would most likely benefit from these ones), the stage threes would be the ticket. Also, don't they make a Stage 2? And how driveable is a car with tuned stage 3s?

As with what everyone is saying, tuning your car will benefit the cam upgrade even more, but it isn't necessary. Kind of expensive for 5 HP not to get tuned and squeeze out a few more, though.


PLEASE NOTE: I've never used any of these products, this is just my observation from seeing the information and specs from vendors that I've read. If I'm wrong here, please chime in and correct me, folks who know better. I try not to talk out of my ass, but sometimes I get the facts wrong because of my lack of experience with certain things and a lack of further information beyond text (if someone has dyno charts, that would be awesome).


2010 Honda Fit LX

Straight from Comp.

Stage 1 "Works best with computer modifications" a.k.a. a tune.
Stage 2 "Requires computer modifications" a.k.a. a tune
Stage 3 "Requires computer modifications" a.k.a. a tuine

I'll like to know why a 3500-8000rpm set of cams do not require a tune when our stock limiter is quite a bit lower than 8000rpms?

Trevor Mullins wrote:

kind of like a screwed up kids sing along

pete the anal monkey lived in my bum..............


best epiosode of barney ever lol