Ok so here is the deal. I have done everything to my car except for performance. Brief info on the motor : The motor has 96k miles on it and I need to rebuild it. Its also a manual 5 speed transmission. I have had a major problem with the engine over heating while just sitting idle during a hot summer day or when im cruiseing at an idle speed.
So I have decided im sick of dealing with the over heating problem and its time to rebuild.
Goal: Fix all problems I have with the motor. Also while im tearing I might as well starting moding it out.
Problem: I dont know much about motor's or performance. I am needing advice on what my best options are for performance on this motor. I have done research but there is not much out there for a 2.2 OHV 3rd gen. So if you guys and gals could point me in the right direction or throw out some ideas my way I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks ahead of time for all your input!
Thanks,
Derrick Hudson
here is a picture of the motor as it sits. Its all stock...
You should probably try to fix your overheating issue first... There's a good chance your motor is more than fine since 97k isn't much.
Try removing your thermostat and flushing your cooling system. Then replace your water pump, and put a new thermostat in as well. Also, check to make sure your fans are coming on when they should be.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
derrick why dont we just rip and tear at it like we did jasons swap an eco in it and be done
hit me up sometime or get on indytuning.com there are plenty of us on there that are motor savvy enough to help. good luck hopefully i will see you at some more shows this year because my car is being completly redone.
Hmmm... Sounds like a candidate for the Taurus 2-spd fan mod, not to mention a possible reprogram of the ECM's fan-operation parameters.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
why does everyone say goto the eco? just cause people can buy parts for them? maybe some people like a challenge and pushrods!!!
Bob Guptill wrote:why does everyone say goto the eco? just cause people can buy parts for them? maybe some people like a challenge and pushrods!!!
I guess because like the V-8 was the standard of fair in hot-rods, and the Hemi is the standard in fuel-class drag-racing, the Eco-tec has become the same for J-car enthusiasts: It's highly desired, and expected. Nothing less is accepted as of result.
Being different is hard. And the more different from the "standards" you are, the harder it is. You really hafta do something extreme for anything else to be accepted as highly as "commonplace" benchmarks, such as a 1200hp twin-turbo'd V-6 in a '32 highboy 3-window. Or make the world's first 5-rotor wankel-engine with a compound turbo system & place it in a top-fuel rail... and be first to run into the 3's. In a 1320' run, no-less! It's possible, but just really hard to do. And because of factors such as "Never intended to be used as-such." & "Easy to do it with.", more people are willing to just follow-form for the sake of easy glory than take a risk for whatever may be had, fates be damned. It's like they're intentionally singling-out anything that don't.
Well, for those that'll dare to be different, may you succeed in ways the "nay-sayers", "poo-poo'ers" & general "sheep" never thought possible. There is no greater reward than the "unlikely" doing the "impossible". Until they eliminate cams or internal-combustion engines altogether, long-live pushrods!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
That engine is prone to headgasket leaks as well. Possible reason for the overheating.
OHV notec wrote:You should probably try to fix your overheating issue first... There's a good chance your motor is more than fine since 97k isn't much.
Try removing your thermostat and flushing your cooling system. Then replace your water pump, and put a new thermostat in as well. Also, check to make sure your fans are coming on when they should be.
I have replaced the thermostat and I have also Hard wired the fan into my fuse box so it constantly runs. But I noticed when the car starts to overheat I open the hood and the fan is off. My next plan was to replace the water pump and then tackle the head gasket. Im sure because its been an ongoing issue for 5 years now that my head is definatly warped and would have to be replaced or machined.
arrival 04 eco wrote:derrick why dont we just rip and tear at it like we did jasons swap an eco in it and be done hit me up sometime or get on indytuning.com there are plenty of us on there that are motor savvy enough to help. good luck hopefully i will see you at some more shows this year because my car is being completly redone.
Ya I have definatly debated doing the eco swap. But like jason and I was talking I would have to do a complete wire harness replacement from head to toe. Obviously this would take a several month process in the motor swap. So I would have to wait till fall/august to start a swap because I cant really miss out on the show season. How long did it take for you guys to do jason's swap? And as far as the eco swap what all would that job entail on my 97 so I can get an idea?
Ok so I have the two options:
1) On one hand I have the eco swap: One I would have to buy the engine, tranny, wire harness, pcm, ecu etc... But I would also have to put time and money fixing my stock motor to get me through the show season. Because I could not get my motor swap done in time for this season. Plus Im getting married in July So I doubt I could take on this project IDK..
2) On the other hand I can take my current motor and tranny and Fix my overheating issue's and rebuild and mod out my current engine. The plus's I have are the motor is already in and and I wouldnt have to buy a new motor and tranny and all that etails with a eco swap.
So my other question for you guys is? Would i really benefit cost and time wise on an eco swap? Or would I be just fine rebuilding my current motor. I do want whatever I have do have some nice performance. Im thinking of adding a turbo eventually.
Thanks again for all your input. Im going to start doing more research on some the links you guys provided
MadJack wrote:TwiZtiD CaVy wrote:I have replaced the thermostat and I have also Hard wired the fan into my fuse box so it constantly runs. But I noticed when the car starts to overheat I open the hood and the fan is off.
That should tell you it's your fan. If the fan runs when it's cool, it may be the fan motor overheating when the engine heats up. Use a volt meter or test light to check the power supply to ensure power is getting to the fan motor. If the power is getting there, then replace the fan motor. If the voltage isn't there, check the relay, they can over heat and quit also.
ok great I will give that a check and see whats going on with that. I think im going to look at just doing an eco swap from the research I have been doing. Matter of fact I just got a text from a buddy that he has a friend who is doing an ls1 swap on a cobalt. So he is selling his 06- 2.2 eco and tranny for 900. So I thought of purchaseing it. But Problem is I need the wireing from front to back. I guess I could just get that from the junkyard. From my understanding I will have to weld up new motor mounts is that correct?
well with talking with paul - arrival 04 eco... My best option is to just drop in a 2.4 ld9. I get to keep my tranny and my wireing is all the same. So thats the plan.. Since it wont take to long to switch out the motor's im just going to scrap my current motor and drop in the new on this season. If anyone knows of a 2.4 ld9 motor 95-05 be sure to send me the info my way! So thats the plan... a 2.4 swap..
here motor, motor motor.....
so wait if you put in a 2.4 you can keep the motor wiring and the ecu and such ? don't have to have anything special? just bolts in huh?>
nope he must have misunderstood me you can not keep the same wiring as far as i know (the 2 swaps ive done we changed it) but it was just the wiring in the bay not the whole car
ok will the 2.2 trans mount up to the 2.4?
no its got a different bellhousing
MadJack wrote:The head gaskets fail after improper cooling system maintainance or failure and the head warps. Aluminum (the head) and cast iron (he block) have different expansion rates. The irregular heating from a cooling system failure/lack of maintainance causes the warpage, hence blowing out the head gasket.
Yeah, that's what I've read too. That and core-plugs rusting-out as a result of poor maintainance. The common motorist is so ignorant of what their vehicle maintainance involves, chit like that happens. That's why "extended-life" coolant was developed, so problems like that could be be overcome. But whacha wanna bet some doof will go more than 5-years without changing their coolant, just because they heard that'll supposedly "Last the life of the car...", just like my dad's belief about dampers, brake-linings & ATF? Is it any wonder that the tires on his 100K-mi van that "has a ride like a Caddy!" dribble like an NBA basketball every time it hits the slightest bump?
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
arrival_04_eco (green98cav) wrote:nope he must have misunderstood me you can not keep the same wiring as far as i know (the 2 swaps ive done we changed it) but it was just the wiring in the bay not the whole car
ya thats what i ment to say... I wont have to do all the wireing from head to toe... but after doing research for a week... Im leaning towards doing the eco swap. Im already doing the wireing in the bay, the inst cluster with the hvac.. i might as well do the rest of the car and get the motor I want. Plus finding decent eco's with less miles is more commin than finding a 2.4 ld9. Plus ive always heard the ld9's are not dependable like the eco's. So its full ahead eco project. Im probably going to start getting serious getting the engine and tranny. It will probably sit in my garage all summer while start to add performance parts to it.
My plan is to have this project start in october and done over the winter. While in the meantime IM addressing the overheating issue as we speak. Im going straight into the headgasket then working my way back from there. Sooo the hunt is on for the eco engine and tranny... along with the whole wireing harness. Im planning on going to pick a part in indy this weekend to look at some cobalts.... ill let you know how the hunting goes.
Bob Guptill wrote:why does everyone say goto the eco? just cause people can buy parts for them? maybe some people like a challenge and pushrods!!!
I used to defend the 2.2 ohv quite a bit on my old car, and I put a lot of money into it with mods... the truth is, the eco is just a much better plaform to mod.. the ohv is only 8v and you need to do a LOT to get it to the point of where the ecotec is in stock form...you can make the OHV fast, but it'll take more money.
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.
The progression of logic:
Quote:
Person A) I'm having trouble with my cooling fan
Person B) Why not just swap the motor?
Person A) OK!!
FastFireTwoTwo wrote:I used to defend the 2.2 ohv quite a bit on my old car, and I put a lot of money into it with mods... the truth is, the eco is just a much better plaform to mod.. the ohv is only 8v and you need to do a LOT to get it to the point of where the ecotec is in stock form...you can make the OHV fast, but it'll take more money.
You need to spend more to mod the ecotec (twice the cams, twice the valves). The entire OHV valvetrain (cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, valves) can be built for $500, the price of an ECO swap?
If all you want to do is build a daily driver that can tear up the pavement, a turbo kit costs the same for either motor, and will make more power on either engine than the remainder of the platform will support.
If you just want all-out NA power for some reason, the ECO would probably be a better choice, but the cost of traveling that road is immense.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
OHV notec wrote:The progression of logic:Quote:
Person A) I'm having trouble with my cooling fan
Person B) Why not just swap the motor?
Person A) OK!!
FastFireTwoTwo wrote:I used to defend the 2.2 ohv quite a bit on my old car, and I put a lot of money into it with mods... the truth is, the eco is just a much better plaform to mod.. the ohv is only 8v and you need to do a LOT to get it to the point of where the ecotec is in stock form...you can make the OHV fast, but it'll take more money.
You need to spend more to mod the ecotec (twice the cams, twice the valves). The entire OHV valvetrain (cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, valves) can be built for $500, the price of an ECO swap?
If all you want to do is build a daily driver that can tear up the pavement, a turbo kit costs the same for either motor, and will make more power on either engine than the remainder of the platform will support.
If you just want all-out NA power for some reason, the ECO would probably be a better choice, but the cost of traveling that road is immense.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more then $500 spent on a OHV head...the head needs a port and polish, larger valves, the lifters/rockers/pushrods/springs don't do much for power gains, I'm sure a cam is going to cost a few hundred and it will probably require removing the engine...turbocharging.. again, the stock ohv is not that robust, tuning better be spot on, the ecotec is better, but not by much thanks to cheap pistons and not ideal ring spacing...The ohv will cost more unless you can do all the work youraself, even then...
Don't buy from MANTAPART!!
There is no easy ways to get HP, no magic box or gizmo... And if you get more hp, there's no way to make your car still behave and sound like a stock one. More hp usually makes your car louder, more vibrations and harder to drive...but still people hope or think maby there's some magic way to have it all, comfort, stock sound and drive.
FastFireTwoTwo wrote:OHV notec wrote:FastFireTwoTwo wrote:I used to defend the 2.2 ohv quite a bit on my old car, and I put a lot of money into it with mods... the truth is, the eco is just a much better plaform to mod.. the ohv is only 8v and you need to do a LOT to get it to the point of where the ecotec is in stock form...you can make the OHV fast, but it'll take more money.
You need to spend more to mod the ecotec (twice the cams, twice the valves). The entire OHV valvetrain (cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, valves) can be built for $500, the price of an ECO swap?
If all you want to do is build a daily driver that can tear up the pavement, a turbo kit costs the same for either motor, and will make more power on either engine than the remainder of the platform will support.
If you just want all-out NA power for some reason, the ECO would probably be a better choice, but the cost of traveling that road is immense.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more then $500 spent on a OHV head...the head needs a port and polish, larger valves, the lifters/rockers/pushrods/springs don't do much for power gains, I'm sure a cam is going to cost a few hundred and it will probably require removing the engine...turbocharging.. again, the stock ohv is not that robust, tuning better be spot on, the ecotec is better, but not by much thanks to cheap pistons and not ideal ring spacing...The ohv will cost more unless you can do all the work youraself, even then...
Cam grind is $150, and doesn't require engine removal. The lifters/pushrods/rockers/springs all support the increased lift from the new cam; most people seem to understand this. I do my own P&P, as do many in the OHV crowd, so cost is abrasives only. Oversized valves cost half as much as for an eco (~100), as does the machining ~$50.
You don't seem to be too familiar with the LN2. Have you had one apart? The LN2 has beefy rods (should be good to at least 400bhp), and the crank is good for much more. The 97- had ring-land issues, but the 98+ is good to go.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
