Hey! I'm fairly new to the J-body performance world, and although I have a good understanding of how engines work(from a lot of repairs I've done on my '95), I have been primarily concerned with making my car look pretty and sound good. My mods so far have been a cheap intake kit(to replace the cracked factory setup) and a flowmaster single-pipe exhaust(again, the factory one rotted out), and new better brand plugs and wires(original ones had a bad miss). My car is only a 2.2, so I know as far a performance goes, I'm somewhat screwed.
Anyway, here's my question:
I've seen Turbo kits for the 2.2, but that would require upgrading the fuel system. I'm fairly good with machines, so I could adapt an older Subird 2.0 turbo for the L4. However, I have also considered a 2.4 swap, possibly leaving that naturally aspirated because I couldn't afford boost after upgrading this. Which would be recommendable? the 2.4 swap is honestly way out of my price range, but I don't know if the 2.2 L4 would handle turbo.
Thoughts and advice appreciated.
-95 CAVfire SE Sedan 2.2L *Retired*
-99 Sunfire GT 2.4L
-85 Dodge Shelby Turbo TII Roller Cam Build *in progress*
Any forced induction will require fuel mods, don't cheap out and "make" another kit fit. Do it once, do it right.
The 2.2 is able to handle boost, around 7-8 psi on stock internals.
And I noticed your car is a '95. If you have a 5 speed, then you can burn tunes to chips for the pcm (With the proper tools and knowledge). If it is an auto, then you are s.o.l.
I can't find anyone who carries a turbo for the 2.2 for less than the price of a newer gt. All the turbos I've found are extremely expensive and still require a lot of chopping to fit a '95(most are 98+). My main question then is where do these turbos come from, because I know that everyone with a 2.2 turbo didn't pay $8000 for the base kit used. Also, where would the necessary fuel system mods come from, because again, very few places carry parts for the basic 2.2. And as far as the engine computer goes, am I just screwed(automatic trans.) or is there a way to get the ECU to be OK with the turbo setup?
And as for the Sunbird turbo, I am interested primarily because I know where I can get one dirt cheap. I've seen modified manifolds made to bolt them up, but I'm not sure how well that idea would actually work. And if a newer turbo would confuse the computer, an adapted turbo would do nothing short of killing any extra power I could make and killing my fuel economy, I'm sure.
-95 CAVfire SE Sedan 2.2L *Retired*
-99 Sunfire GT 2.4L
-85 Dodge Shelby Turbo TII Roller Cam Build *in progress*
Swap to an 98+ harness and computer to use hptuners. Turbo kit will be expensive, look into Hahn for a quality product. The 98+ header will also fit the older 2.2's. Any turbo will "confuse" a stock tune.
The main fuel mods are pumps, and a top feed injector conversion (use pieces from the 98+, but not the whole intake as it will never fit). Parts for the 2.2 are everywhere, we can use sbc rollers, some companies make rods and ss valves, 98+ pistons for a higher compression ratio, look around the site, you will find what you need.
Dave Taylor wrote: My main question then is where do these turbos come from, because I know that everyone with a 2.2 turbo didn't pay $8000 for the base kit used.
Who the hell would pay $8000 for a used turbo kit?
here is what I have invested in my set up
JTuner's Manifold:$300
Turbonetics Turbo: $1,200
Tial Wastegate: $275
Greddy BOV: $275
Intercooler piping: $250
Oil supply and return: $200+
HPT: $650
Greddy Boost controller: $500
Blitz FATT: $100
RC 650cc injectors: $400
custom fuel rail : $100
Racetronix fuel pump: $300
Im sure I am forgetting something but thats pretty much the basic set up. The list doesnt count the $4,000 in internal workings I stuck in my '98 2200 nor does it include the $3,000 in the transmission or the $900 I spent having it tuned with HPT.
There is no "cheap" way to do a turbo set up or any real performance modifications. I can tell you first hand if your going to cheapen out on what ever route you go your simply wasting money. I bought a used turbo, a log manifold and tried to do it myself. What a bunch of garbage that was. You could easily go to the junk yard and pull a 2.4L for under $500 and drop it into your car. As far as what all has to be changed or modified that is better off left for some one who doesnt still have an LN2 in their engine bay.
a lot of people have done an eco swap, the engines are available almost everywere and quite affordable....just another idea..
Mike wrote:Swap to an 98+ harness and computer to use hptuners. Turbo kit will be expensive, look into Hahn for a quality product. The 98+ header will also fit the older 2.2's. Any turbo will "confuse" a stock tune.
The main fuel mods are pumps, and a top feed injector conversion (use pieces from the 98+, but not the whole intake as it will never fit). Parts for the 2.2 are everywhere, we can use sbc rollers, some companies make rods and ss valves, 98+ pistons for a higher compression ratio, look around the site, you will find what you need.
few things I've noticed on a couple of your posts.
first, going back to one of your first posts, it's only 5-6PSI the stock internals can handle. next, the harness should be a 97, which, is OBD2 (go me!) 96 was OBD2 also, but it couldn't be cracked with HPT.
for the 98+ header, no, it won't line up properly causing problems with an attempted turbo. could do more damage than good for it. I had been considering it at one time, and had gotten a 2200 exhaust manifold to try to line it up just as a test fit for a turbo, but no dice.
You have a 95 correct? The only 3rd gen J-body that is OBD1 and will accept a LGO with ease. Go over to Quad4forums and start looking into the 2.3L Quad 4s, they would be a very easy drop in way to get 170hp-190hp with light N/A mods.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
Brad (joining JBOShortBus) wrote:Mike wrote:Swap to an 98+ harness and computer to use hptuners. Turbo kit will be expensive, look into Hahn for a quality product. The 98+ header will also fit the older 2.2's. Any turbo will "confuse" a stock tune.
The main fuel mods are pumps, and a top feed injector conversion (use pieces from the 98+, but not the whole intake as it will never fit). Parts for the 2.2 are everywhere, we can use sbc rollers, some companies make rods and ss valves, 98+ pistons for a higher compression ratio, look around the site, you will find what you need.
few things I've noticed on a couple of your posts.
first, going back to one of your first posts, it's only 5-6PSI the stock internals can handle. next, the harness should be a 97, which, is OBD2 (go me!) 96 was OBD2 also, but it couldn't be cracked with HPT.
for the 98+ header, no, it won't line up properly causing problems with an attempted turbo. could do more damage than good for it. I had been considering it at one time, and had gotten a 2200 exhaust manifold to try to line it up just as a test fit for a turbo, but no dice.
Brad, you have a nice post correcting Mike, but imma gonna have to correct you for a second.
You cannot measure an engines durability in PSI, because the CFM rating at 5psi varies from turbo to turbo.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
i think you need to read a LOT more before you attempt this. Search on this site, read the sticky about turboing. ANY turbo can be bolted on ANY engine as long as the manifold is built to make it work. 8 grand for a turbo kit is crazy in my opinion. The right turbo for your engine depends on your wants and needs. I will give you a few tips though.
-Port the head....it is the bottle neck on this engine and is really needed to feel any performance gain. If you do no other engine work do this.
-If you cant find tuning software or a chip look into msd DIS II for timing retard and an ajustable fuel pressure regulator and a FMU. THESE AE A MUST IF YOU CANT TUNE YOUR ECU....THE FUEL SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED WITH ANY BOOST.
-I dont think a 98 up swap is necessary and 2000 up would require rewiring of the whole car. if you rewire do a 97ecu and engine harness.
-read read read read read
The sunbird turbo will probably give a little umph but I doubt it would give you the umph you are after. any 'stock' turbo is usually pretty small.
Tinkles wrote:Brad, you have a nice post correcting Mike, but imma gonna have to correct you for a second.
You cannot measure an engines durability in PSI, because the CFM rating at 5psi varies from turbo to turbo.
good point, I was more saying towards a t3/t4 garret though, on average, they have a lower CFM than other brands. though, as the OP was considering doing with the 2.0 turbo, which is a t28 I believe, that would be fine for it.
and nice Kanye impression there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, October 23, 2009 12:45 PM
Thanks for all the advice! That clears up a lot. I've been seeing more BS than truth from other sites, and I'm trying to get all my facts straight. I'm trying to get all my research in ahead of time, 'cuz I'm not planning on doing the engine swap/turbo build for a few months yet(OK, more like almost a year). But, if any other stock turbos line up, I know a great yard that I can watch over the winter and spring. As far as 2.3 or 2.4 prices are around here, I'm looking at 700-900 for a decent engine, then transmission/wiring is another issue. And finding them in a yard is harder yet, all the Z's and GTs locally have been gutted. So a turbo build is what I'm lookin at, and a stock turbo will do just fine if I can find one(not looking for much power, just enough to get the Z24 ppl off my back about being a ricer...LOL). But really, running 14's would be fine with me, I've heard of turbo sunbirds/cavys doing that. I realize there's no cheap way, but I've seen it done for under $3000 easily...whereas I found a "universal" turbo on ebay that would be 6500 for the turbo alone....and another couple thousand for the parts to install and run it. Granted, ebay is a crappy site to get parts from....anyway, I have a little more direction with the idea now, thanks!
-95 CAVfire SE Sedan 2.2L *Retired*
-99 Sunfire GT 2.4L
-85 Dodge Shelby Turbo TII Roller Cam Build *in progress*
Dave Taylor wrote: I found a "universal" turbo on ebay that would be 6500 for the turbo alone....and another couple thousand for the parts to install and run it. Granted, ebay is a crappy site to get parts from
$6500 for an ebay turbo? You can get knock off 50 trims all day long under $200.
Not that I condone buying a turbo from e-bay, but here is a fairly complete kit for $1200.
Ebay turbo kit
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
^^^^They sell that same kit with the same parts for Ecotecs, lol.
Tinkles
2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown
